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SHEEP!

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Level 7 Human Producer
Alignment: Lawful
Location: Canada
Posted on April 2, 2012 at 5:05 pm

Not sure if this has been posted farther back. I only went back for so long.

I read over the manual and it said Sheep replenish in the Spring. So I've been using sheep to feed my invading armies. But every spring they don't re-spawn.

Is this a bug, or is the manual wrong?

Level 13 Extraplanar Programmer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Location: Toronto
Posted on April 2, 2012 at 6:17 pm

There is a maximum number of sheep permitted on the map, so if you have a bunch of sheep sitting around you might not get new ones.

Level 7 Human gamer
Alignment: Lawful
Posted on April 2, 2012 at 9:38 pm

I have noticed this also. My sheep tend to respawn at the switch over from Late Autumn -> Early Winter, literally watched this happen just a few days ago. Captured sheep, sent them to stock a town, season changed, sheep reappeared in the recently vacated pen.

Level 17 Extraplanar gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on April 3, 2012 at 5:24 pm

Sorry about the confusion. As Bansh noted, sheep will actually spawn slowly over the course of the winter. I think at one point I think we had sheep spawning in the spring corresponding with some traditional agricultural practices but decided to move it back to the winter for better game balance. I'll check into fixing the manual for the next update. Thanks for pointing this out.

Level 7 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on April 4, 2012 at 2:52 pm

Ouch, I've had some problems because I assumed sheep respawn each year unconditionally. Starving cities on the assumption they'd be back...

It seems to me they hardly ever respawn in the territory I control, and I actually made sure to use up all my sheep, even slaughtering the small left overs if I was full on food and wanted a new herd to spawn. But year after year, I am lucky if one out of every five appropriate places spawns sheep. Does the limit apply to each individual territory, or the entire map? Because I have noticed the AI hardly ever uses their sheep, and I find a good amount raiding enemy territory.

Level 7 Human gamer
Alignment: Lawful
Posted on April 4, 2012 at 10:40 pm

I'm pretty certain it is the entire map. While it can be frustrating in our own territories, I must admit, after my almost starving army has spent a long time crossing large open areas, or spent forever winding its way through long mountain passes, those untouched sheep sitting in a hostile region, are a blessing.

I think personally I prefer them spawning the way they do, I spend far more time eye-balling the bad guys than I do my own areas, and having your scouts find sheep hidden deep in an enemy region makes winter time assaults viable, especially with the way the AI buffs up its troop count when you get near a town. Move them in, in Early Winter, blockade the supply lines and set them to camp, capture said sheep and place them with your army. The AI will raise its troops inside into the hundreds, by Late Winter, they'll almost always be about to run out of food, then you have an easy capture with spring right around the corner ready to replenish and support your garrison.

Level 17 Extraplanar gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on April 5, 2012 at 12:55 pm

The cap is across the entire map and imposes a limit of something around 75 flocks. As the only unit not restricted by resources, we needed to put some sort of cap on it to prevent them from being exploited.

I'm currently investigating a player's savegame who's reporting issues with sheep spawning so I'll post if I find anything that's not working as it should.

Level 8 Human Historienne
Alignment: True neutral
Location: Montmartre, Paris, France
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 11:11 am

Sérieusement, les troupeaux de moutons sont-ils réellement sensés se compléter à la longue et réapparaitre une fois consommés?
Si oui, j'attends ce miracle depuis un bail.
Un patch est-il prévue pour faire que ce qui est écrit se réalise un jour ou doit on oublier de compter sur cette précieuse mais hélas fort aléatoire ressource?
Merci de votre patience,
Daniela.

Automatic Translation:

"Seriously, the herds of sheep are indeed sensible completed each other in the time and respawn once used?
So yes, I wait for this miracle since a lease.
A patch is it envisaged to make that what is written comes true one day or do we must forget to rely on this precious but so very much unpredictable means?
Thanks for your patience,
Daniela."

Level 17 Extraplanar gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 4:49 pm

I have looked into the sheep issue a bit more and, while I didn't find any technical bugs, I agree that there are problems with the gameplay. I'm looking into a few ways to better balance this but in the meantime, if anybody wants more sheep in the game there's a file in "resources/data" called "globals.xnt" that contains all of the adjustable stats in the game. You can control the max number of sheep by changing the line "<maxsheepbrigades>75</maxsheepbrigades>" to say something around 125. If you go much higher it might affect performance as it will keep trying to spawn sheep but have nowhere to put them.

Level 8 Human Historienne
Alignment: True neutral
Location: Montmartre, Paris, France
Posted on April 11, 2012 at 11:23 pm

Thanks for your answer but the problem is not the number of sheeps but only knowing how to do for fuller flocks, when (winter, spring or all the year?) and where they are growing (anywhere, inside corals or City walls?) and what is the conditions for make them respawn in the same place of the first localisation?

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: Good
Posted on April 12, 2012 at 1:38 am

I've been annoyed by the lack of sheep in the past, but to be honest, I no longer think it's that big a problem. It just makes better planning all the more important.

Still, if people think it's a problem, then how about having unclaimed flocks of sheep disappear after 2 or 3 years? This should ensure that more flocks will spawn in player territories, although the flipside is that finding flocks of sheep deep in enemy territory, while on an offensive campaign, will be less likely.

Level 7 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on April 12, 2012 at 4:03 pm

I think the universal limit is the problem, as people have been bringing up. The AI hardly ever uses sheep, in fact, they only seem to ever use sheep they get from raiding my territories. Sheep herds in AI territory stay there forever, and take up cap, while I am constantly using my herds- the result is that I'm getting less and less a percentage of what I should be getting.

Technically, you can starve out an island of city-states that relies heavily on sheep by just hoarding your own sheep and never using them, ensuring that the limit will be reached and they won't respawn there.

Its definitely important to keep sheep as intended- transhumance livestock that can be taken advantage of by the native faction in the area, or by the raiding faction, so it isn't always bad they all the sheep spawn outside my territory, but it is too predictable, because I can now count on the presence of sheep in outside territory just by observing there are no herds under my control.

Level 7 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on April 13, 2012 at 9:45 am

so just to be clear, the reason why im not seeing sheep respawn even though i have about 15 pastures in my territory and 0 herds, its because there are 75 sheep herds in other areas of the map?

Level 17 Extraplanar gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on April 13, 2012 at 10:32 am

The AI hardly ever uses sheep, in fact, they only seem to ever use sheep they get from raiding my territories.

I believe this is the root of the problem. Although the AI is programmed to go out and collect sheep, which should keep them spawning more evenly, there are a number of places on the map where this doesn't work properly (usually where they're too far from a city). Overtime the sheep congregate in these problematic spots preventing sheep from spawning elsewhere.

I'm looking at some changes to the AI to give them more flexibility to go out and collect sheep. As it can be hard to predict all of the ramifications to AI changes I'll probably try releasing it as a beta version sometime next week. If you're playing through Steam, it will install separately but can still access your savegames.

Level 7 Human Senior Business Analyst
Alignment: Lawful good
Location: Denmark
Posted on April 14, 2012 at 3:14 am

have to agree on that, I never saw a spawn of sheep and my men starved to death :(

But isn't a bit unrealistic that sheep do not spawn every where? I mean it's like a butterfly effect, if one sheep spawn in north nothing happends in east?! I would really think that they at the time would use sheep for food supply simply because they can move and keep the food supply growning.

Level 7 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on April 16, 2012 at 7:49 pm

I have looked into the sheep issue a bit more and, while I didn't find any technical bugs, I agree that there are problems with the gameplay. I'm looking into a few ways to better balance this but in the meantime, if anybody wants more sheep in the game there's a file in "resources/data" called "globals.xnt" that contains all of the adjustable stats in the game. You can control the max number of sheep by changing the line "<maxsheepbrigades>75</maxsheepbrigades>" to say something around 125. If you go much higher it might affect performance as it will keep trying to spawn sheep but have nowhere to put them.


This works great for me, the sheeps respawn more often.
When i used them heavy for supply my attacking army the next winter ( or was it spring? ) the sheeps spawn in larger numbers.

Level 17 Extraplanar gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on April 28, 2012 at 11:01 pm

If you guys haven't seen the post yet, there's a new update that fixes a few issues that were preventing the AI from using sheep properly which led to some balance issues over time. As AI changes can be a little unpredictable we've just posted it as a beta for now. So, if you get a chance to try it please let us know what you think.

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: Good
Posted on April 29, 2012 at 7:52 am

If you guys haven't seen the post yet, there's a new update that fixes a few issues that were preventing the AI from using sheep properly which led to some balance issues over time. As AI changes can be a little unpredictable we've just posted it as a beta for now. So, if you get a chance to try it please let us know what you think.

Is it compatible with earlier saves?

Level 13 Extraplanar Programmer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Location: Toronto
Posted on April 29, 2012 at 5:43 pm

Yep!

If you have trouble, just reinstall the current version and let us know what problem you experienced.

Level 7 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on April 29, 2012 at 6:00 pm

Seems that the AI is more agressive then before, i get much more attacks then before the new version.

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