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Rob talks logistics

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Level 14 Extraplanar Programmer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Location: Toronto
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 2:24 am

In a new article on Wargamer, Rob discusses logistics in Hegemony. It's a very interesting piece that explores why we made the design decisions we made, how it reflects history, and what you can expect from the logistics system in Hegemony Rome. There's also some exclusive screenshots, so you don't want to miss this article.

Rob has also found time in his busy week to do an interview at GiN, where he submits his thoughts on the game industry and being and indie developer. And while you're at GiN, be sure to vote for us!

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: Lawful evil
Location: Quebec
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 5:14 am

O_O amazing,good thing to read,love the map and the half-legion poor them you forget there legs XD.

question about the picture of the ox,
3 ox move in the same direction very close to each outer you never see that in gold ,is that a new thing or just random.

map size "from north of Italy up to Britain + Gaul and Germanic" can you be more precise on Britain and Germanic how much can we conquer 1/2,3/4,1/4 of the country .

i just cannot imagine what you guys can do wit a budget like the totalwar series.

Level 17 Extraplanar gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on February 29, 2012 at 5:46 pm

question about the picture of the ox,
3 ox move in the same direction very close to each outer you never see that in gold ,is that a new thing or just random.


The positioning of the ox-carts in that shot is pretty much random. Although there are some differences to how the supply lines work, the role and behaviour of the ox-carts in Rome is virtually the same as it was in Gold. The only difference, which isn't evident in this shot, is that Clarissa's modelled a few different carts so you'll see more variety on the map this time.

map size "from north of Italy up to Britain + Gaul and Germanic" can you be more precise on Britain and Germanic how much can we conquer 1/2,3/4,1/4 of the country.

The image below shows roughly the extents of the map in Rome, you won't be able to go right to the edges (particularly in the North-East) but like in Greece we're including a fair amount of land beyond what was covered in the campaign.



i just cannot imagine what you guys can do wit a budget like the totalwar series.

Frankly I think I'd just be way too intimidated handling that kind of budget but on the other hand it has been really nice having Clarissa and Britt working on Rome from the beginning since it's allowed us to put a lot more detail and polish into the game that we just didn't have the resources for on Philip and Gold.

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: Lawful evil
Location: Quebec
Posted on March 1, 2012 at 4:16 am

question about the picture of the ox,
3 ox move in the same direction very close to each outer you never see that in gold ,is that a new thing or just random.


The positioning of the ox-carts in that shot is pretty much random. Although there are some differences to how the supply lines work, the role and behaviour of the ox-carts in Rome is virtually the same as it was in Gold. The only difference, which isn't evident in this shot, is that Clarissa's modelled a few different carts so you'll see more variety on the map this time.

map size "from north of Italy up to Britain + Gaul and Germanic" can you be more precise on Britain and Germanic how much can we conquer 1/2,3/4,1/4 of the country.

The image below shows roughly the extents of the map in Rome, you won't be able to go right to the edges (particularly in the North-East) but like in Greece we're including a fair amount of land beyond what was covered in the campaign.



i just cannot imagine what you guys can do wit a budget like the totalwar series.

Frankly I think I'd just be way too intimidated handling that kind of budget but on the other hand it has been really nice having Clarissa and Britt working on Rome from the beginning since it's allowed us to put a lot more detail and polish into the game that we just didn't have the resources for on Philip and Gold.


thanks for you answers and the map screenshot really give a good idea of the journey..... but rise a question?

naval power in the game, the gaul and the brites do not have one expt for trade?what can wee expect to see.

Level 8 Human Senior Business Analyst
Alignment: Lawful good
Location: Denmark
Posted on March 1, 2012 at 3:04 pm

Arghhh!!! me wants beta now!!!! droool

Level 14 Extraplanar Programmer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Location: Toronto
Posted on March 1, 2012 at 5:27 pm

naval power in the game, the gaul and the brites do not have one expt for trade?what can wee expect to see.
When Caesar first crossed the English Channel, Roman Warships weren't built to handle the rough waters, and British warships didn't have oars. This usually resulted in Britain outclassing Caesar, and the only reason Caesar wasn't annihilated in their first encounter is because the sea calmed at the perfect time, leaving the British ships — without oars — unable to attack.

The following year, Caesar had a new fleet built that were a hybrid of the Roman and British designs, giving him the best of both worlds.

So in the campaigns, the plan is for Caesar to have at two kinds of ships, and for Britain to have pretty good ships of their own. Gaul and Germany will pretty much stay off the water, but of course in the sandbox you'll be free to turn them into naval powers if you want to.

Edit: Sorry, I'm getting my battles mistaken; the story of ships being becalmed actually happened while Caesar was hunting down the fleeing Veneti (a Gallic tribe). Needless to say, all the gameplay stuff I was talking about still stands.

Level 7 Human Ranger Gamer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Location: France
Posted on March 2, 2012 at 6:04 am

The farm screenshot is intruiging too : if it's a main representation of farms in the game, it helps to grasp the scale of the game even better =P And I really love the new icons, they have a little metallic feel, it's great.

The article is interesting, and all the ideas and features about logistics are very exciting ! I'm also very curious to read more about the unit's upgrade system, if it will be the same or with different stats ?

I was thinking about a little factor that every warchief has to take into account, and we sometimes see in other to a lesser extent, is the use of local guides. This kind of units could have a larger vie range, maybe slighlty "out-dated" information on armies nearby the city he's been hired (and at a pricely cost), things like that ?

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: Lawful evil
Location: Quebec
Posted on March 2, 2012 at 7:27 am

naval power in the game, the gaul and the brites do not have one expt for trade?what can wee expect to see.
When Caesar first crossed the English Channel, Roman Warships weren't built to handle the rough waters, and British warships didn't have oars. This usually resulted in Britain outclassing Caesar, and the only reason Caesar wasn't annihilated in their first encounter is because the sea calmed at the perfect time, leaving the British ships — without oars — unable to attack.

The following year, Caesar had a new fleet built that were a hybrid of the Roman and British designs, giving him the best of both worlds.

So in the campaigns, the plan is for Caesar to have at two kinds of ships, and for Britain to have pretty good ships of their own. Gaul and Germany will pretty much stay off the water, but of course in the sandbox you'll be free to turn them into naval powers if you want to.

Edit: Sorry, I'm getting my battles mistaken; the story of ships being becalmed actually happened while Caesar was hunting down the fleeing Veneti (a Gallic tribe). Needless to say, all the gameplay stuff I was talking about still stands.


2 type of ship that going to be fun.....lol 1 question 1 answer + 1 historical lesson.ths @Rick

Level 17 Extraplanar gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on March 2, 2012 at 10:25 am

I'm also very curious to read more about the unit's upgrade system, if it will be the same or with different stats ?

We'll definitely do an article or video about the unit upgrades as we get further along. This is one system that, at least on the surface, has changed completely from the previous games. The Heroics, Engineering, etc from Philip/Gold are gone and in its place you'll be able to use your experience to promote officers within your units that can improve a wider range of base stats. There is also be a parallel system for cities where you can spend resources to construct buildings that boost the stats like garrison strength, recruitment rate, etc.

I was thinking about a little factor that every warchief has to take into account, and we sometimes see in other to a lesser extent, is the use of local guides.

An interesting idea. There would be a few ways we could handle something like that in the current mechanics. At a minimum it could be some interesting flavour for a scout unit.

maybe slighlty "out-dated" information on armies nearby

We've discussed the idea of armies leaving trails quite a few times over the course of development. We always thought it would be cool to come across tracks and be able to follow them or use some skill to estimate what made them and when. In some really old versions of Philip, armies would trample the grass as they marched, but given the size of our map we found it just took too many resources to track all that movement history that we had to drop the feature. You will be able to see old camp sites in Rome which will give you some clues to where the enemy is.

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: Chaotic
Location: Canada
Posted on March 2, 2012 at 6:31 pm

Mount and Blade uses a trail system. It was interesting to be albe to see that there are enemies in the area and where they were moving to, let you know that you weren't the only one wondering around an area. Also if you were weakened it meant you knew what areas to avoid if you were not ready for a fight.

Level 7 Human Ranger Gamer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Location: France
Posted on March 15, 2012 at 6:30 pm

I was musing about the logistics : the concept of units taking food along to campaign is a great idea and has to be kept (especially in the context of Rome), but I was wondering how that mechanic could be upscaled a bit, and imagined a system of "empire borders and countryside". The idea more or less comes from games such as Civilization (starting with the third one) or even better, Rise of Nations.

For example, in Gold, I control a few cities at the start, and their "nation alignement" make them immediatly part of my Empire. Thus, considering marching troops within that empire would have a lot of "invisible" ways to find food (farms, homestead, outposts...), there's no need to take supplies from the city they're leaving.

Now I want to conquer a nearby city, not too hostile, but still, I have to wage war to get it into my new empire. My units need to take supplies for the siege, and then, once the city is captured, my Empire borders expand. Then, depending on the initial attitude of that city toward my ruling, its complete incorporation into the Empire would take some time (visually, it could be rendered by some colored overlay on the strategic map, becoming darker and darker as time passes), and thus, my units would still need supplies taken along to march through the fields in the near viscinity of that city.

And such "absorbtion" would take more and more time - and more and more garrisson ? - to complete in far distant and hostile lands. In the core-countryside of the Empire, movements would be easy, swift and safe, but as you approach the outer lands, caution has to be taken. In Rise of Nations, that concept was rendered by having units taking damage when outside of that control border ; in Hegemony, the concept of supplies is far neater(and realistic) ^^

Level 14 Extraplanar Programmer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Location: Toronto
Posted on March 16, 2012 at 8:25 am

It's funny you should say that. We didn't implement the exact concept you described, but we've been running with the idea of making it easier to move around in your own territory. Here's a screenshot from our latest build: (click to embiggen)


Here it's showing the resupply areas around these two cities. You'll notice a few things:

1) The areas are much larger. (Notice the small brigade on the left.)
2) The areas conform to the terrain, so you can no longer resupply across rivers or mountains.
3) There's a lot of overlap between these two supply areas. Not all cities are this close, but your chances of being able to travel from one city to another without leaving your supply range is much higher than it was in Hegemony 1.

Level 7 Human Ranger Gamer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Location: France
Posted on March 16, 2012 at 2:07 pm

I really love that screenshot : it's rather exciting to see the huge scale it has. It's quite nice to see how my ideas seem to resonate so well =D and as the units will have the possibility to adjust their supplies, the movements will be perfect.

It's always sad to see such great improvements in future games, and wishing they were already there in the previous ones to be used in the same settings... (ha, Pharaoh, why were you not like Zeus with your employement system =P).

(Funny though : we discuss supplies, and on the screenshot, we see that neither the unit nor the city is well supplied ^^)

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: Lawful evil
Location: Quebec
Posted on March 18, 2012 at 4:25 am

It's funny you should say that. We didn't implement the exact concept you described, but we've been running with the idea of making it easier to move around in your own territory. Here's a screenshot from our latest build: (click to embiggen)


Here it's showing the resupply areas around these two cities. You'll notice a few things:

1) The areas are much larger. (Notice the small brigade on the left.)
2) The areas conform to the terrain, so you can no longer resupply across rivers or mountains.
3) There's a lot of overlap between these two supply areas. Not all cities are this close, but your chances of being able to travel from one city to another without leaving your supply range is much higher than it was in Hegemony 1.


nice image...solider look like ants :) don forget the option to tune on\off the gold line ,doing battle whit gold line don look nice

Level 17 Extraplanar gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on March 18, 2012 at 10:14 pm

nice image...solider look like ants :) don forget the option to tune on\off the gold line ,doing battle whit gold line don look nice

Finding a balance between GUI and aesthetics has always been tricky. While I love the immersive feel of GUI-less games, it's not really practical in a strategy game where a player needs a lot of information in order to make their decisions.

Right now the resupply radius that you see in the screenshots only appears when your mouse is over a friendly city which is a little stricter than it was in Philip/Gold so it shouldn't appear when you're fighting in the field.

Some other ideas we've discussed include adding a keyboard shortcut that you either hold down or use to toggle the supply ranges and now that they're big enough to be seen I was also wondering about adding them to the 2d strategy map where they might be a better fit. Additionally, while writing this it also occurs to me that I could change the cursor so you can tell whether you're plotting a move into or out of supply range.

I'm putting off a lot of these interface details until we can get more playtesting and really see what will be most useful, but the feedback is still useful now as it does give us more time to come up with ideas even if we don't end up using all of them.

Level 7 Human school
Alignment: Chaotic evil
Posted on May 10, 2012 at 3:01 pm

One question are you guys including the Germanic tribes invading in to Audea or no and are the Helvetian allied with them?

Level 14 Extraplanar Programmer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Location: Toronto
Posted on May 10, 2012 at 10:58 pm

That's exactly how the game starts :)