I think I have almost finished my second try at the Athenian campaign after getting to learn the basics of PoM. It has been very fun to say the least. Though, I have some questions and some suggestions. I'll try my best to be organized in this message as well.

-First, there is always praise.

As a Athenian navy lover, I made the bad decision to jump head first into the Athenian campaign. I felt very overwhelmed to say the least.(Which is a good thing) I did take the ol' Triremes out for a cruise, and rammed a few unfortunate trading vessels. On my second try, and after getting the feel of PoM, I have had the most fun. Especially the battle for Megara. It was my first major battle fought to the northwest of Eleusis. Though, before the battle I had nowhere near what Megara and her allies could muster in man power. I learned that the hard way after losing two Hoplite brigades to the Thebans, during the withdrawal from the field and abandonment of the siege of Megara. After seeing their strength, I had to go on a series of naval raiding campaigns to weaken the city states that were sending troops to help Megara. Which was very fun, as well as avoiding field battles and relaying on guerrilla warfare tactics. Never in a game did I get to kill some skirmishers, burn something, and then take off in my Triremes as the enemy army stands at the shore. I really enjoy the different aspects of war that I get to experience in this game. Also, I applaud you all in the experiance system and having a wide variety of Hoplite contingents in your army. Gives me a RPG feeling and having veterans is big brownie points as well.

Here I would like to ask some questions on the decisions you all have made on the game in general.

- I have really enjoyed having Generals to add to my army, but why are some generals such as Pericles and Nicias have all their stats maxed out? In my personal opinion, neither of these generals deserve their five star stats on everything.

- Next, I would like to ask why are the Thebans Hoplites so strong? In my personal opinion, again, I think they should be lowered down a bit to maybe some twos and ones.

- Third, I have been able to recruit Spartan Hoplites in the city of Aegina. Why is this? Shouldn't Spartan Hoplites be exclusive to Sparta and Sparta only?

- Another question would be, why can I only recruit Athenian Triremes as Athens? I would like to recruit maybe some allied Triremes to reperesent the allied forces that Athens could call upon.

Finally, and sorry for the long message, I would like to make some suggestions.

- Experience for the Triremes. I really would like to see that, not only because I love Triremes, it's because with experience a Spartan Trireme could be faster than an Athenian Trireme with a better trained crew.

- Maybe adding some marines to recruit wouldn't be bad either. They could be around maybe twenty men, and could be slightly faster and lighter armored than regular Hoplites. I think this could be a great addition to the naval side of this game. The marines could take away the speed penalty or negate some of it for Triremes when you have troops aboard.


That's enough for now. Please don't take any offense to these comments of mine, they are all in good faith. Thanks for the great game and thanks for listening

-Generals- These Generals are known for their huge impact upon that particular city-state. So they get the biggest advantage. I am assuming.
-Thebans- Thebans were known for having tough and well trained hoplites. Tougher then Athens so the stats show that.
-Sparta- While Sparta was the capital, it still had influence over other city-states in the area. Hence they spread their training methods.
-Triremes- You should be able to. Make sure they are on the shore.

I'll pick up your points about the Athenian generals first. I agree with you that Nicias wasn't much of a military commander - he was more of a politician. Pericles, however, gets a good treatment in Plutarch so I suspect he was a good leader of men.

You're also right about the Theban/Boeotian hoplites being too strong for the Peloponnesian War period. Remember that the game was originally set during the rise of Macedon though, which is after the Battle of Leuktra. Thebes had pioneered new military tactics under Epaminondas and Pelopidas, leaving them with the strongest hoplite units in Greece, while Sparta was barely able to field an army due to its persistent social problems. Maybe it was a developer oversight not to downgrade Theban hoplites for the Peloponnesian campaigns.

I don't use triremes so much so I can't really comment there. I've found it hard to play as Athens - your assets are so spread out and your land forces are below average in strength, making it difficult to break out of Attica when the AI keeps sending high quality reinforcements anywhere you attack.

I'll pick up your points about the Athenian generals first. I agree with you that Nicias wasn't much of a military commander - he was more of a politician. Pericles, however, gets a good treatment in Plutarch so I suspect he was a good leader of men.

You're also right about the Theban/Boeotian hoplites being too strong for the Peloponnesian War period. Remember that the game was originally set during the rise of Macedon though, which is after the Battle of Leuktra. Thebes had pioneered new military tactics under Epaminondas and Pelopidas, leaving them with the strongest hoplite units in Greece, while Sparta was barely able to field an army due to its persistent social problems. Maybe it was a developer oversight not to downgrade Theban hoplites for the Peloponnesian campaigns.

I don't use triremes so much so I can't really comment there. I've found it hard to play as Athens - your assets are so spread out and your land forces are below average in strength, making it difficult to break out of Attica when the AI keeps sending high quality reinforcements anywhere you attack.


Thank you for the input. You are completely right about Nicias and I do agree on your ideas on Pericles as well. Though do you think maybe that Pericles should be toned down to some fours? As I see this, and maybe the developers can correct me, but when I see stats maxed out I think of the perfect general and no flaws. I do see Pericles, as Plutarch and Thucydides explain him, as the a pillar of the state, if not "the pillar of the state," but I see Pericles as a lesser military leader as his successors.

Your thoughts on the Theban/Boeotian Hoplites do equate to mine. I do have an idea that can maybe fix this. For example, you can not recruit catapults in the Peloponnesian War campaign, so can there be a down graded unit of Theban Hoplites that can be only recruited in the Peloponnesian War campaign and not the PoM campaign? This can maybe done as a separate unit.

And as Athens, I find Triremes a must to distract better soldiers away from where you are attacking. Or launching raids where you can single out units and beat them one by one. Though this takes timing as well, you have to be quick enough on your raids and kills, so when you invade you can exploit their lack of man power. Also, using skirmisher during sieges I have found it takes down their garrison alot quicker and if you have already lowed it enough you can keep the units from re-healing themselves while besieging them. Athens is hard to play as because of the reasons you explained, but manning their mines will help you be able to open up multiple fronts, which is a must in the game. Also, as you beat these units that you single out, as I have said above, turn them into slaves to save you money on your mines, thus allowing you to open up more fronts for the Peloponnesian League, thus stretching their man power.