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Hegemony Gold Beta 11: What Are You Waiting For?

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Level 14 Extraplanar Programmer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Location: Toronto
Posted on December 4, 2010 at 9:24 am

Beta 11 is out now, so download it now!

Just a reminder to those who anybody just joining us: if you've purchased Hegemony: Philip of Macedon you can still get a free serial code for Hegemony Gold here and try out the beta. Your help is appreciated!

Keep reading for this week's changes.

* Fixed a crash caused by issuing orders to units in different containers.
* Fixed underpowered missile bug.
* Disabled defensive buff near cities and forts to improve siege balance.
* Altered siege system so garrison reduces damage rather than increasing hitpoints. This allows max hitpoints to remain constant and garrison to have an immediate effect.
* Garrison units now take damage during a siege.
* Ships with units on board now do extra damage during the "boarding" phase of ship combat after the initial impact.
* Helpful tooltips for the asset list columns.
* Firing rate and recruitment rate is now shown in the tooltips.
* Triremes now require more speed to get the maximum impact bonus.
* Fixed invalid saved games that were sometimes being created by last week's build.

As always, bugs can be bugs can be posted on the Hegemony forums or mailed to Rob.

Level 8 Human Perruptor
Alignment: Lawful
Posted on December 4, 2010 at 10:32 am

I presume it is deliberate that walled cities now have much lower defensive strengths, e.g. -

Aegae fully manned = 600

Cities w/ 30/35 = 400

Level 8 Human True Nerd
Alignment: Chaotic good
Location: Meran
Posted on December 4, 2010 at 11:06 am

Can't wait to try it out! Question: is it a problem if i installe the new one over the last one or should i better disinstall that first? I tried both over the last releases but saw no difference. And thanks for your great work ofcourse :)

Level 8 Human Perruptor
Alignment: Lawful
Posted on December 4, 2010 at 11:16 am

Can't wait to try it out! Question: is it a problem if i installe the new one over the last one or should i better disinstall that first? I tried both over the last releases but saw no difference. And thanks for your great work ofcourse :)
I installed it over an older one without any problems.

Level 8 Human True Nerd
Alignment: Chaotic good
Location: Meran
Posted on December 4, 2010 at 12:43 pm

Time for the first critics :P I like the idea of the fixed lower hitpoints for cities and forts, but maybe you should consider limiting the catapults damage on walls as well. I always bring 3 groups of catapults with me and with them i brought down Messenias 1000 hp in no time. And the Messenian army reacts in a strange way: they let me siege Messenia itself without moving a finger, but all peltasts they had attacked me from Korone when i captured a farm

Level 8 Human Historienne
Alignment: True neutral
Location: Montmartre, Paris, France
Posted on December 4, 2010 at 1:16 pm

Bonjour et compliments pour ce bijoux à propos duquel je ne taris pas d'éloges.
*N'ayant hélas pas encore atteint un niveau assez avancé du jeu, je voudrais savoir si il est possible de capturer les navires à l'accostage à l'aide de la cavalerie ou tout autre unité, voir même, de capturer ceux ci une fois mis en déroute lors d'affrontements navals ou d'abordage à l'aide des unités embarquées.

*D'autre part,
pourrait-on reconstituer les troupeaux de moutons entamés, en leur permettant par exemple de paître dans les champs dont les récoltes ne sont pas encore moissonnées ou dans les cités possédant des excédents de vivre?

*Une touche de chargement rapide de la dernière sauvegarde est-elle prévue?

*Les ruines des anciennes demeures des généraux ne pourraient-elles pas, une fois rebâties, apporter quelques bonus, comme celui d'augmenter la quantité de vivres transportables aux unités qui y sont rattachées, dans la mesure où celles ci se voient attribuer un nombre suffisant d'esclaves ou de travailleurs?

*Pourraient-on diviser les groupes d'esclaves de manière à combler la capacité des mines sans être obligé de les visiter l'un après l'autre?

*Et enfin,
est-il envisageable de voir un jour une inclinaison de camera permettant d'observer le ciel et pourquoi pas, un recul de zoom faisant apparaître les nuages et les détails de la tente de commandement, à la manière de celle employée par le fameux R.U.S.E d'Eugen Systems?

Désolée pour ma méconnaissance de la langue de Shakespeare.
J'espère ne pas vous avoir trop dérangé par l'emploie de celle de Molière.
Salutations,
Daniela.

Level 8 Human CEO
Alignment: Lawful good
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted on December 5, 2010 at 8:13 pm

Bonsoir Daniela,

Pour la première question: Non, trirèmes ne peut pas être capturé par des unités non-marine.

Pour la deuxième question: Oui, vous pouvez également augmenter le nombre de sauvegardes et de réduire le temps entre chaque sauvegarde.

Les développeurs doivent répondre à vos questions.

A votre service,

Erik

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: Lawful
Posted on December 6, 2010 at 2:18 am

How mod friendly do you plan on making the game? I'd love to make the Persian controlled part of Ionia playable, but start the game allied with Persia if you play as Persia, but just with a truce with Persia if you play as Ionia, and take away Persia's ability to train hoplites away because in reality only the Ionian states would have had hoplites anyway.

For anyone who doesn't know too much about the Ionians they were the greeks on the other side of the Aegean. Aeolis, Ionia, Doris, Rhodes, Chios, Lesbos, Naxos, Crete, Cyprus, Samos. I'd only make the Persian controlled ones separate so Athens could keep its empire and Crete would be independent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Anatolia_Ancient_Regions_base.svg

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on December 6, 2010 at 7:21 am

Hello, is it fair to ask replies to be made in ENGLISH in order for everyone to have a chance of understanding? No offense, Daniela, but your questions seemed quite lengthy and initiated (and therefore, interesting!) and may be of interest to other people as well. Hope for your understanding.

Level 17 Extraplanar gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on December 6, 2010 at 3:35 pm

I presume it is deliberate that walled cities now have much lower defensive strengths,

Yep. Cities and forts now have fixed defensive strengths based on their pop, size and defensive rating. The garrison now acts as a shield reducing siege damage similar to how the unit's missile defense works. A max garrison reduces siege attacks by 90% meaning a fully garrisoned city has roughly 10x the defense of an ungarrisoned city. The overall strength should work out roughly equal to what they were before but the new system means that city's defenses won't fluctuate as much as they used to and your garrison will have an immediate effect on the city's defenses rather than having to wait for the city's defenses to build. Further, continuing the effort we've been making in Gold to increase the lasting impact of combat, the garrison now takes damage during a siege and a city's defenses take longer to recover so that even an unsuccessful siege should result in some lasting impact.

Time for the first critics :P I like the idea of the fixed lower hitpoints for cities and forts, but maybe you should consider limiting the catapults damage on walls as well.

Sorry. We were testing almost entirely in the new scenarios without catapults and I missed the fact that catapult damage is calculated in a different place in the code (despite there being a large TODO message that was supposed to remind me to merge the code). As you pointed out catapults will be overpowered in this version as the garrison won't affect damage. I've fixed this now and it will be included in the next update. On the upside at least the AI doesn't use catapults yet :)

Hello, is it fair to ask replies to be made in ENGLISH in order for everyone to have a chance of understanding? No offense, Daniela,

Fortunately we have google translate to handle things like this. However, given its ineloquent translations I can't blame someone for writing in their native language and letting the readers get the machine version.

Regarding capturing enemy ships. It is something we worked on earlier in development because it was a significant factor in naval warfare at the time. Unfortunately we ran into a number of balancing problems and had to remove it. Beached enemy ships can be attacked by land units but you can only get new ships by building them in cities.

Regarding the sheep: in the latest version you can move the flocks into cities in order to load them on ships or safeguard them for use later but new flocks only appear during the spring lambing period at the pasture sites marked by fences on the map.

Regarding the villas: it was the original idea that they represented estates for the generals which would have included some sort of agriculture. However, when we changed how generals were awarded in gold we decided to remove villas altogether for clarity rather than try to adapt their functionality to be some sort of secondary food or gold resource. We have had a number of comments from users who want to use slaves or workers for food production and we're considering how to implement that into a future release but I don't think it will happen in Gold.

Regarding splitting slaves: honestly the main reason we don't have an option for splitting slaves again is that making an interface for it would be fairly time consuming and we haven't heard that there is much demand for it. Most people seem to have extra slaves so they haven't minded if they have a few extras in a mine. We can certainly consider this if the demand is there but we have to balance it with the ton of other feature requests we have.

Finally, regarding tilting the camera: I'll be the first to admit that I enjoy having a really flexible camera but we avoided it in Hegemony because it significantly complicates performance and adds the need for some sort of artificial distance fog without adding much to the actual gameplay. We've got it on our wish list for the project after Gold but there are a lot of things ahead of it so I can't make any guarantees.

How do you mod friendly plan is making the game? I'd love to make the Persian controlled part of Ionia playable, but start the game allied with Persia if you play as Persia, but just with a truce with Persia if you play as Ionia, and take away Persia's ability to train hoplites away because in reality only the Ionian states would have had hoplites anyway. I'd love to make The Persian controlled part of Ionia playable, to start the game Allied With Persia if you play as Persia, to just With A With truce if you play as Persia Ionia, and take away Persia's Ability to train away Because hoplites in reality only states Would Have The Ionian hoplites HAD anyway.

At the moment we've tried to keep all of our files pretty open so that you're welcome to mess around with them but we haven't had the resources to make our internal tools releasable. I believe it would be possible to setup the scenario you're describing by modifying the scenario files in resources/entities/campaigns, however there would be quite a few changes to make to get everything working including defining a new faction and make strings for it in the language file.

Level 8 Human True Nerd
Alignment: Chaotic good
Location: Meran
Posted on December 6, 2010 at 7:22 pm

Thanks for the update Rob. It's good to know you will improve a game that gave me tons of hours of fun already :) One thing i'd like to ask about this time is: is there a way to "disencourage" the AI to move its whole army into a town when i'm approacing? The reaction itself is an intelligent one, when it sees me coming, it moves all the available units to the town im closing in. The problem is that he doesn't fight me in the field, but run into the town instead, making it easier for me to siege with 2 battallions of hoplites and then start bombarding the walls with catapults. The AI often loses hundreds of men this way, and this way it often loses also neighboring towns, who it left defenseless and with no more recruits. Coming back to my initial question, is there a way to dinencourage the AI to fill the town, lets say if it reaches its garrison limit and attack me instead?
And a question about the overall AI and diplomacy. Do you plan to make all factions make war with eachother? Let me explain: they attack each others units when they meet, but i don't think they build up armies and siege each others towns unlike they do with mine :( . And do you plan to let them make peace or ally with other AI factions, for their own safety or to better kick my butt?
Just to make it clear again, the game is AWESOME even now :) THX a lot for it

Level 8 Human Perruptor
Alignment: Lawful
Posted on December 6, 2010 at 8:52 pm

More on the AI behavior:

Several times I've seen what rolzuc describes. I would add that after they're bottled up they start making sorties, but since they come out the gates slowly they just get slaughtered. I've taken a couple of cities where big armies were frittered away uselessly like that.

An interesting variant, I approached Larissa from the coast. The harassed me with peltasts for a bit, and eventually sent out a full army to meet me. But just as they got into position they chickened out and ran back into the city, where things happened as described above. (A field engagement would have gotten interesting, since the armies were about equally matched.)

Thanks for the explanation of the new siege mechanics.

Level 17 Extraplanar gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 6:05 pm

One thing i'd like to ask about this time is: is there a way to "disencourage" the AI to move its whole army into a town when i'm approacing?

Improving the AI's defense is pretty high on my list for the next month so I do hope to improve on the things you're talking about. I'd love to get them to arrange into battlelines when they have a reasonable force to attack you with but I don't know if i'll have time to get to that. At a minimum I do plan to get the AI to better judge when it's more effective for it to stay inside and man the catapults and when it should try to meet you on the field.

Several times I've seen what rolzuc describes. I would add that after they're bottled up they start making sorties, but since they come out the gates slowly they just get slaughtered. I've taken a couple of cities where big armies were frittered away uselessly like that.

One of the things on my list that should make a significant difference is getting the AI to better understand breaking out of a siege. Right now they don't necessarily send hoplites or tougher units out first but often use peltasts or light infantry that get easily slaughtered. I will keep this in mind. One our reasons for extended the resupply radius around cities in gold was to make it easier to setup defenses outside of cities so I do hope to improve this as I get more into AI before release.

Level 8 Human Historienne
Alignment: True neutral
Location: Montmartre, Paris, France
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 6:20 pm

Sorry for my english,
i have few questions about floks of sheeps.
How to use and reconstituate them.
Is'it possible to consomme them and find news or completes floks on our territory?
If i want mulitply floks in prevision of big invasion, how to do it?
A complete consumed flok can be respawning at the same place?
For the moment i'm totaly in the trouble about this problem of food.

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on December 12, 2010 at 2:14 am

@Daniela

Food does seem to be scarce now. To utilize sheep, you must first capture them like defeated troops, then send them to your city. When they come to your city, a new button will appear allowing you to either consume or unload them.

I think that they won't respawn unless you have already consumed the original sheep from that area. To save up multiple flocks for future campaigns, you can either just stockpile all of your sheep in one area, or you can risk trying to capture the enemy's sheep instead.

If you have a few Triremes, you can also target your enemy's merchant ships, and then pick up the small amounts of food that they drop in the water when sunk.

I'll use Google translate as well, just in case:

Les aliments ne semblent être rares désormais. Pour utiliser les moutons, vous devez d'abord les capturer comme troupes battues, puis de les envoyer à votre ville. Quand ils viennent à votre ville, un nouveau bouton apparaît, vous permettant de consommer ou les décharger.

Je pense qu'ils ne réapparaîtra pas à moins d'avoir déjà consommé les moutons d'origine de cette région. Pour économiser jusqu'à plusieurs troupeaux pour les campagnes futures, vous pouvez soit stocker tous vos moutons dans un domaine, ou vous pouvez le risque en essayant de capturer les moutons de l'ennemi au lieu.

Si vous avez un peu de trirèmes, vous pouvez également cibler les navires marchands de votre ennemi, puis ramasser les petites quantités de nourriture que leur chute dans l'eau quand coulé.

Hope that helps.

Level 9 Human Student
Alignment: Chaotic
Posted on December 12, 2010 at 2:43 am


And a question about the overall AI and diplomacy. Do you plan to make all factions make war with eachother? Let me explain: they attack each others units when they meet, but i don't think they build up armies and siege each others towns unlike they do with mine :( . And do you plan to let them make peace or ally with other AI factions, for their own safety or to better kick my butt?
Just to make it clear again, the game is AWESOME even now :) THX a lot for it


I am interested in this too. I think it would be very interesting if the AI chose other AI targets to attack based on how hostile they are to specific factions (which I'm guessing would be simplest), or basing it on other factors like it seems to when it attacks the player (state of defences etc.).

Level 8 Human CEO
Alignment: Lawful good
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted on December 13, 2010 at 1:20 am

I rue invading certain parts of the map. There are no internal threats, just constant shore raids. I'm forced to keep so many premiere military units on call in the region that I spend most of my time micro-managing these raids. Irritating. What makes the game fun is also going to make it very tedious very soon after expanding.

I'm having a very hard time even with manually delivering food in keeping my empire fed and profitable. I'm also new to triremes and finding the combat of them clunky and widly unpredictable. Still can't stop playing the game though. I just keep restarting, refining, restarting, refining, etc.

One of my biggest complaints with B11 is the odds of running into massed missile units. By the time the unit can carve its way in, the groups of missile enemies have killed my units off. Anything except first rank high-missile defense melee can really combat this. I sometimes keep roving groups of scout cavalry around and use pulling tactics to move groups apart so I can cut them down piecemeal.

Still not quite right.

Level 8 Human CEO
Alignment: Lawful good
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted on December 13, 2010 at 1:37 am

A few economic suggestions, none of which are game-making or breaking. But had to offer anyway. :)

1. Trade roads are too costly to improve.

2. Villas used to provide additional income; this income isn't great, but noticeable.

3. With foreign cities now requiring a garrison, one would hope that the values can be raised in some manner. Ideally workers could be used to improve economic ratings of the cities over time.

4. Being able to increase the number of market/trade nodes would be a valuable piece of gameplay and strategy.

5. Trade routes are always +2 gold; as distance makes the transfer rate of food diminish, distance obviously has a gameplay aspect. Economically speaking, it would benefit a larger city's market to be able to trade with a far off city state. I would like to see this aspect of the game improved. At the very least, heavy market node cities should generate more income and should generate more trade income per route.

With recruitment and faction based population (and very few chances to Spear-Won the city) I end up with hundreds of unused population points and importing much cheaper friendly or Macedon garrison troops all over the map. This is consuming more and more of my time and energy. At 4200 gold and about 8 quests into Hegemony, only 15% of my time is roughly spent expanding - and I'm fast, efficient and seasoned.

Level 8 Human Historienne
Alignment: True neutral
Location: Montmartre, Paris, France
Posted on December 13, 2010 at 5:52 am

Thanks for your answer,
even if that not seem fonctioned for my flocks.

Another questions, again :-)
why when we capture mines with slaves or workers, sometime we capture the mine with all their slaves and sometimes slaves are completly disapear?

Why when we capture a city full of troops, can't we capture all the troops and flocks inside in the same time?

Salutations from France,
Daniela de Montmartre.

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on December 13, 2010 at 9:11 am

@Daniela

If a mine has slaves inside it, you should be able to capture them. You could also try to capture the mine before you capture the nearby city it is linked to, just to be safe. If a mine has workers inside it though, the workers will disappear just like enemy combat units do when you capture them inside a city. I think this is because the worker bands are tied to the city, while slaves are not.

When we capture cities, I think the troops disappear for game-balance reasons.

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