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Winter Nightmare

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Level 8 Human gamer, Giant Microwave operator, stalker, Rapist
Alignment: Chaotic good
Location: TN, USA, maybe
Posted on November 12, 2010 at 6:10 am

Now I like to invade in the winter. it just seems that if I invade in the winter I can take on about 4 cities at once compared to struggling to take on one city during the summer. Don't know if its a reason behind it or not, it just seems easier. But I wanted to know, is it by design that all ships in water during the winter sinks to the bottom before you get a real chance to react to it? Normally my warning that winter is coming is some of my boats start sinking and I get a warning about it. Historically did every ship out in sea got destroyed the second winter came because it just dosen't seem right. Especially with the trade ships. I go off, find a trade ship and then all of a sudden it catchs fire, turns and sinks the second I just look at it.

Level 17 Extraplanar gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on November 12, 2010 at 9:37 am

The general idea is that you don't want to sail in the winter. Triremes were very top heavy and prone to tipping in rough water which is why they generally kept close to shore and were beached during the winter. The way we've modeled it in game is a bit of a simplification as realistically you'd probably be fine sailing until you hit a storm during which you'd quickly lose a large percentage of your ships.

In hegemony you can still sail along the coast and make short hops across open water. We could slow the damage if you guys think its too fast. Generally we're trying to vary up the strategies throughout the year but we also want to avoid having times when you can't do much and are just waiting for time to pass.

Level 8 Human Lord-General
Alignment: Lawful
Location: Western Australia
Posted on November 12, 2010 at 9:57 am

Interestingly, playing as Crete in Hegemony Gold (Beta v7) I had "winter seas" damage taking place during early\middle Autumn. Not sure if that is a bug or not, I would assume it could be. Should be able to replicate it by starting a sandbox game as Crete, building a Trireme and moving it during Autumn some distance away from the shores of Crete and any other nearby islands.

Level 17 Extraplanar gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on November 12, 2010 at 10:37 am

There are areas of the sea that are rough year round and this includes much of the area between crete and the rest of greece. These areas appear darker on the map and have a different wave texture. As I mentioned in my earlier post triremes weren't very reliable in open water and tended to stick near the coast.

Level 8 Human Lord-General
Alignment: Lawful
Location: Western Australia
Posted on November 12, 2010 at 10:57 am

Ah right that explains everything, thanks. I had a quick glance through the ingame manual trying to figure out why that was happening and found nothing. Soon learnt to stay in the lighter coloured safe areas though. The dangerous areas could maybe use a touch more contrast to differ them from safe areas as I was having trouble in a few limited spots telling what part of the sea was safe or not at 1920x1080 when zoomed in. No doubt I'll get better at telling the difference between the two as I play my Crete sandbox campaign, since until now I hadn't really touched naval travel or combat. Bought the game on Steam the moment it came out.

Nice piece of historical accuracy, just another reason to love the game.

Level 8 Human Salesman
Alignment: Chaotic good
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posted on November 12, 2010 at 12:37 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong here (to the original post), but isn't winter the best time to launch a campaign (over land obviously) aiming to arrive right at the end of winter, beginning of spring?

That way you can hit the farms and supply lines right as food production starts to accelerate and force the enemy cities to survive off their low-from-winter stocks, while you occupy the farms to supply your own troops for the seiges?

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: Chaotic evil
Posted on November 12, 2010 at 12:43 pm

Also its great to attack during winter - start of spring, because ships cant sail and athenians will leave you in peach...usually the rest of the time i have to deal more with athinean raids rather than my real enemies!

Level 17 Extraplanar gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on November 12, 2010 at 1:58 pm

... I had a quick glance through the ingame manual trying to figure out why that was happening and found nothing.

Good point, there's only a brief reference on the trireme page so I'll add something more obvious for the next update.

The dangerous areas could maybe use a touch more contrast to differ them from safe areas ...

True, I would've loved to have had the time to make the water look properly stormy. One thing I can do is change the cursor to something with the wave icon when you're over rough water like I do for shorelines - it's not huge but it might help a little.

Correct me if I'm wrong here (to the original post), but isn't winter the best time to launch a campaign (over land obviously) aiming to arrive right at the end of winter, beginning of spring?

Historically, winter would have been a downtime for combat and we incorporated that by making the AI more aggressive in the summer and quieter in the winter. However, for better or for worse this has made it so many players find the winter the best time to expand even though that's not how it would have gone historically.

Level 8 Human Salesman
Alignment: Chaotic good
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posted on November 12, 2010 at 2:24 pm

Are there any plans to make it more difficult to campaign in winter? Maybe a movement speed penalty, which would in turn increase the food requirements.

Level 17 Extraplanar gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on November 12, 2010 at 4:53 pm

Are there any plans to make it more difficult to campaign in winter? Maybe a movement speed penalty, which would in turn increase the food requirements.

Not at the moment, our concern with further penalizing the winter period is that it might make it too beneficial to wait it out. Our goal was to emphasize different tactics at different times of year while making sure there was always something viable to do.

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on November 13, 2010 at 5:32 am

I'm not exactly sure how it would work, but perhaps a morale penalty could be applied to all units during the winter? With the defensive bonus now included in Gold, it would hopefully make it a less beneficial time to launch an offensive, especially if there were some way to make it so that the penalty only began outside of a city, and grew the longer they were out. It might compel you to quarter your troops in the wintertime, or use bases along the line of march. Also, troops and generals with high heroics would become even more valuable, because you could send your veteran troops out on surprise winter attacks or maneuvers and feel totally bad ass.

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on November 13, 2010 at 5:35 am

Just to add on to my post above... Initiative would also be hugely useful, with the faster marching between bases and all.