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Preview release 6 now released!

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Level 14 Extraplanar Programmer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Location: Toronto
Posted on October 30, 2010 at 1:39 am

Alright, so we weren't sure whether to call this one an alpha or a beta: we think it's of beta quality, but not all the content is in yet, so we decided to just play it safe and call it a "preview release". Anyway, you know the deal: download it here. And be sure to check back later for the release notes.

Level 17 Extraplanar gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on October 30, 2010 at 8:50 am

Release Notes:

- A number of bug fixes in the diplomacy interface
- Units already in enemy territory when a truce is called now properly trigger a truce violation
- Units entering buildings, ships, etc should properly clear their truce violations now
- Upgrading a truce to an alliance no longer gives a hostility penalty
- Fixed cost checks when building allied units
- Added expense/income column to the asset list
- Expanded size column in asset list to show relative health of the unit and indicate recruiting problems
- Added dropdown list to home column in asset list to quickly change a unit's home city
- Fixed pre-existing enemy unit skills so they match newly built enemy units
- Added prisoner description for player generals and special units caught in enemy cities
- AI can no longer use the player's units it has prisoner
- Camping princesses should no longer crash
- Fixed Theban kill objective in Dawn of Demosthenes
- Demosthenes now spawns in Athens rather than Pella
- Fixed crash with missing Spartan Slaves in To Catch a Spartan
- Fixed bugs in the 'move units into a city' objectives that could incorrectly reset the timer
- Fixed bug rewarding truce after Catch of the Day objective
- Fixed crash loading savegames after Demosthenes was awarded
- Messenians can no longer be disbanded or have their home changed
- AI can't build phalangites in the archidamian war anymore
- Fixed bug where units could get stuck when still under missile fire after exiting melee combat
- Added floating text for cavalry charge results
- Reduced AI aggression on particular cities in the Archidamian war

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: Lawful
Posted on October 30, 2010 at 9:49 am

Awww
I was so looking forward to a "disband group" button and the 1click to select single unit...

The only reason I'm not playing right now is because I cant even get to the point where all these v6 fixes are meaningful for me because I can't get past the control scheme.
It's because I have no idea how to choose a single unit from a group during combat in anything resembling haste or accuracy, and also because when units are grouped I can't see the individual unit information (like the amount of food it's carrying etc) like I can when it's a single unit.

but mostly because I can't control my armies during combat



also, unrelated, should tribal cavalry be that strong?
I had those bunch of cities west of pella and edesa (I think it's called), and a single tribal cav marches in from the north... so I figure I through a couple of spearmen and a pelast at it, problem goes away right?
No. routed all 3 units and lost only 2 soldiers. to garrison with phalangites then?

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on October 30, 2010 at 10:40 am

also, unrelated, should tribal cavalry be that strong?
I had those bunch of cities west of pella and edesa (I think it's called), and a single tribal cav marches in from the north... so I figure I through a couple of spearmen and a pelast at it, problem goes away right?
No. routed all 3 units and lost only 2 soldiers. to garrison with phalangites then?


Spearmen or Peltast are not meant for head to head battles against any cavalry, and since a Calvary gets a charge bonus, odds are they would probably route them as they charged them since both are considered light infantry. I know it may seem confusing in terms of how Spearmen or Peltast can route against Calvary, but those are downright cheapest units, and not meant to be the bulk of any defense or attack force. (In fact I hardly use any Peltast units, and keep Spearmen solely for garrison duties) So if you want to defend those cities, in terms of taking your units out of the city, then indeed Phalangites or even Mercenary Hopolites are the way to go against cavalry, as the Calvary won't stand a chance against them.

Speaking of which, not sure how much of coding this can be, but any chance units that have hopolites can actually send them out if they want to invade and not raid. As there's been a couple of Spartan invasions that only had one Hopolite, while the rest were all Spearmen (Alpha 5 naturally, but didn't see anything to that in Alpha 6, so figured I would mention it), which I find the spearmen naturally easy and pointless to beat back. It at least would give a bit more challenge I think to some of the factions in terms of how you defend. (Dardania from Illyria does it perfect, they always send almost 3-4 full brigades of Hopolites, along with 3-4 Peltast units to support, which always give me a challenge to worry about)


The only reason I'm not playing right now is because I cant even get to the point where all these v6 fixes are meaningful for me because I can't get past the control scheme.
It's because I have no idea how to choose a single unit from a group during combat in anything resembling haste or accuracy, and also because when units are grouped I can't see the individual unit information (like the amount of food it's carrying etc) like I can when it's a single unit.

but mostly because I can't control my armies during combat


I may be able to help with some of those answers at least, In terms of deciding who to pick from a group, usually the order they are in in the UI window, is the order their marching, so unit that's left (is the left most card), center, (center card, etc..), if necessary just pause the game really quick to select the right unit you want, thus haste and accuracy won't be as much of an issue. Also, you can check how much individual food each unit has while in a group, through the mouse hover. If you hover the mouse over the unit, you'll see 3 bars, green represents the health of the units, blue is for morale, and the orange represents food of that unit, this way you can see whose running out of food if necessary.

Well hope that helps.

Level 17 Extraplanar gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on October 30, 2010 at 11:06 am

Awww
I was so looking forward to a "disband group" button and the 1click to select single unit...


That's still on the table but this was mostly an update to fix bugs that were in there rather than introducing new features. I'm currently working on player ai and unit stances but I'll try to get something going on grouping as soon as possible.

also, unrelated, should tribal cavalry be that strong?

Cavalry are intended to be pretty good against light infantry because of their charge ability but there might be room for some adjustments. When I added the charge ability I did reduce their default attack and defense values but I might lower those even further so that if you can survive the initial charge you should be able to overwhelm them. From some other discussions we're also looking at reducing the size of some of the cavalry brigades.

but any chance units that have hopolites can actually send them out if they want to invade and not raid.

I agree. The way the AI currently calculates what units to build does tend to bias towards cheaper units like spearmen. Historically factions like Illyria and Sparta relied primarily on hoplites and the AI should definitely use them more, especially when sieging.

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on October 30, 2010 at 11:30 am

Rob, I also assume the alliance things you were talking about for the Phillip scenario is not in yet?

Also, noticed a problem in the diplomacy window (Phillip Scenario) that's causing automatic crash 100% of the time as for some reason Independents are showing there and when I try to hover over the arrow, I always get a CTD.

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on October 30, 2010 at 11:36 am

Also, forgot to mention concerning this comment:

Cavalry are intended to be pretty good against light infantry because of their charge ability but there might be room for some adjustments. When I added the charge ability I did reduce their default attack and defense values but I might lower those even further so that if you can survive the initial charge you should be able to overwhelm them. From some other discussions we're also looking at reducing the size of some of the cavalry brigades.

If you are indeed considering this, then you may also wanna considering reducing the cost and even pop requirements on these units if you go that direction, so they won't be nearly useful to even to the most basic infantry types. In my personal opinion, I think they are fine the way they are, they still cannot stand toe-to-toe with heavy infantry, and I think if you somehow code the AI to take advantage of its heavy infantry more then light infantry if they have it, especially during invasions, the idea of cavalry being overpowered will fade.

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: Lawful
Posted on October 30, 2010 at 2:33 pm

If you are indeed considering this, then you may also wanna considering reducing the cost and even pop requirements on these units if you go that direction, so they won't be nearly useful to even to the most basic infantry types. In my personal opinion, I think they are fine the way they are, they still cannot stand toe-to-toe with heavy infantry, and I think if you somehow code the AI to take advantage of its heavy infantry more then light infantry if they have it, especially during invasions, the idea of cavalry being overpowered will fade.

I dunno. The cavalry didn't get to charge me at all, they were busy raiding my immediate area and I sent the units at them right out of the city, and still my units all died and the tribal cav. lost only 2 soldiers.
Maybe it was a one off strange occurance.



Thanks Rob! I already figured it was one of the best purchases I've made, but you make me even more confident :)

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on October 30, 2010 at 4:13 pm

Marchenery catapult price in city building menu is still incorrect - 50$, must be 100$.

Level 17 Extraplanar gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on October 31, 2010 at 12:22 am

Rob, I also assume the alliance things you were talking about for the Phillip scenario is not in yet? ... for some reason Independents are showing ...

Nope, those discussions came too late to make it into this update but it's still my plan and hopefully should be there for update 7. The independent faction shouldn't be there and is a side effect of reworking the list internally to allow sorting.

The cavalry didn't get to charge me at all, they were busy raiding my immediate area and I sent the units at them right out of the city, and still my units all died and the tribal cav. lost only 2 soldiers.

My current thoughts on cavalry (and this is all hypothetical) is to make their missile defense dependent on their movement speed. This would probably be more realistic than their currently always high missile defense and would make them easier to defeat if you survive their charge and they'd realistically be much less effective in sieges.

Regarding their size, and more specifically the size of the Thessalian cavalry, I was wondering about make the Thessalian Cavalry a unique unit like the Companions and have the remaining cities just build the small greek cavalry like everyone else. As I believe the basis for the Thessalian Cavalry in Hegemony is the single unit that fought with Alexander this might be more accurate.

Another point that may have contributed to lightzy's unintuitive loss was that peltast damage currently accumulates very slowly against hoplites and cavalry due to their high hitpoints and missile defense. This means there is very little apparent impact on the enemy for a long time and then once all that damage has accumulated units start to die quickly. If you only had spearmen holding the cavalry you likely would never get to the point where the cavalry had taken enough damage to start dying. I'm looking at options to have missile units concentrate their fire more so the effects of their attacks are more consistent and gradual.

Marchenery catapult price in city building menu is still incorrect - 50$, must be 100$.

That's not actually a bug (or at least it was intentional) - as catapults and triremes originally did not require population we didn't consider them to be mercenaries which is why it says 'Build Catapult' not 'Build Mercenary Catapult'. Also, since neither catapults nor mercenaries use morale they don't quite fit with the mercenary concept in hegemony.

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on October 31, 2010 at 11:43 am

When building Catapult in occupied city expense is incrising by 100$, but in building menu price is 50$

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on October 31, 2010 at 12:35 pm

When building Catapult in occupied city expense is incrising by 100$, but in building menu price is 50$

I believe that's the same issue with Triremes too, as even though the cost is correct in the interface, when you decide to build them from a conquered city, it's actually double the price, haven't actually tested this theory in Alpha 6 yet, but it was the case in Alpha 5 for sure.

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on October 31, 2010 at 12:44 pm

Ohh, forgot to mention a sound bug I've been encountering since like Alpha 3.

It seems to happen when I start Sailing Triremes and their fighting in sea, but basically, what would happen is you'll heard the constant sound of the drum (That happens when ever enemies come into range, or are attacking), over, over, and over again, until eventually either the ships are destroyed, or land by a beach or dock, then it stops. It's happened a few times during the Phillip Scenario, but I noticed it a bit more during the Archidamian Campaign since I'm using ships a lot more.

Not sure if that was clear enough, but if you need to me record a save game of this and send it, then let me know if you don't already know what I'm talking about.

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on October 31, 2010 at 1:07 pm

This horrible sound caused by see in winter(Demaging Triremes ), when Triremes coming to my shore.

Level 17 Extraplanar gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on October 31, 2010 at 2:44 pm

When building Catapult in occupied city expense is incrising by 100$, but in building menu price is 50$

Oops, i'll fix that for the next version.

Ohh, forgot to mention a sound bug I've been encountering since like Alpha 3.

I've got a pretty good idea why that might be happening so I should have that fixed for the next update.

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on October 31, 2010 at 7:40 pm

You have to do something with Assets Window, irs impossible to use.
As a programmer I dont understand why Assets Window is so slow.

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on October 31, 2010 at 8:35 pm

When building Catapult in occupied city expense is incrising by 100$, but in building menu price is 50$

Oops, i'll fix that for the next version.


Cool, don't forget it's also happening for the Triremes too.

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on October 31, 2010 at 8:58 pm

Noticed another bug in the Archidamian Campaign.

When you complete one of the Northern Diplomacy objective that's part of the Odyrsian Kingdom, you get King Sitacles Calvary and Peltast. The description says that their units sizes are 30 each, and also 4 stars across their board in terms of their abilities. However, when I actually click on the units, the Calvary only has 6 units and only 1/1/1/1/1 across the board, and the Peltast, while they are the correct size of 30, they also have 1/1/1/1/1 too.

Also, another bug with the Northern Diplomacy Obejective, it seems when you enter into an alliance with Macedonia per that objective, everyone's hostility will raise against you if you already had a truce with Macedon, which I did before. It seems specific to this objective alone, as I can raise a truce with any viable faction, then declare an alliance with that same faction with no increase in hostility to the other factions.

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on November 1, 2010 at 7:02 am

I had a couple of crashes (Philip) - some odd ones like - pelast not found or outside the region, but otherwise the game is stable.
I've noticed that description for Philip's bonus to heroics and logistics is the other way round - I'm not sure about other units and leaders.
Also, I mentioned that at Alpha 4 - punish Olynthus is now part of Sacred War objective, not Olynthus first blood - why? When you tear down it's walls you get Callistratus the scholar in Olynthus and - as it turned out later - a general called Alcetas in Dion. When I captured Dion a lot later he was just waitng there. Maybe he should apprear somewhere else, though it's not a massive problem. I was only surprised to find him there out of nowhere.

Another thing - is AI capable of disbanding units? I get attacked every winter (!) by a very hungry
Illyrian army north of Lake Lychnidos (Pirustae or Penestae). They approach, run out of food and turn back. It seems they have too big army to feed (3 hoplites and 3 pelasts). I've not been bothering them at all - would AI be able to disband some units? The opposite of what's happening when you approach an enemy city and it starts to build units.

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on November 1, 2010 at 1:58 pm

Another Archidamian Bug..

Completed the Objective "Friend in Need" which is part of the Controlled Response Objectives, by killing some Phocians, then declaring a truce, and alliance a bit after (Since their Hoplites are better then mine which I can totally use), thus captured Locris. The reward states that sheep will spawn across Locris and Euboea, however, no sheep did spawn. Not sure if it's because I did it this way in particular (which shouldn't matter I don't think), or if it's because it's already Late Summer in terms of the season.

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