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Alpha 5; You know the drill!

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Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on October 24, 2010 at 4:32 pm

Alternatively or possibly together, when cities are set not to rebel after completing certain objectives I could let those cities build allied units to at lease have some available in the Philip campaign....

That would be very nice to have for sure. I can also understand the problem with how some objectives can be trivial via the alliance option, but I have mixed feelings about that, as at the same time I feel I shouldn't have conquer every single little city that the faction has to make them bend to my will. So as mentioned before, the ability of alliances, especially when I'm getting close to just wiping them out, is extremely handy to have.

Perhaps a suggestion then, In terms of the objectives since you want people to capture the objectives, perhaps only make alliances available with a certain faction after all the objectives have been conquered for that specific region/area/faction? This way it's like a submission, as you've beaten them, but now you get to reap the benefits of my protection. This way, the objectives still need to be taken, but at the same time, it leaves alliances still open as well down the line for the player.

Not sure how hard it would be to code something like that, but I find that idea very interesting, hehe.

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on October 24, 2010 at 6:27 pm

Noticed a minor bug.

Some units near the gold rings of the cities don't automatically seem to gather food after leaving the city while keeping them stationed just right outside. (keep in mind, this is when I choose not to break camp outside, and just station them there)

A good example of this is near Stropsko, where I have my units outside for better positioning for Illyrian incursions, but clearly within the gold ring of the city, however, they will not automatically gather the food and will just simply run out of food while the city clearly has plenty of food inside. Again, it's not on all cities, but that's one area I noticed so far that it happens.

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on October 25, 2010 at 11:33 am

Also, now that's I've had a good chunk of playtime in the game, any idea about some of my older suggestions ? Like reducing the pop limits on horses? (Thessalian Cav requires 40 which is a bit to much I think), but wondering never the less.
I was planning on reducing the recruits for the cavalry but delayed after some discussion in the office. Is it still a popular opinion that they feel unbalanced?

I think cavalry cost should be very high compared to infantry. That’s normally the case in other games (EU 1-3 for example).

Historically only nomadic tribes could field a large horse army. There was a reason for that. It took a couple of weeks to train an infantryman but many years just to teach someone to ride a horse. Not to mention the logistical requirements to support it. I would say cavalry costs should be 3-5 times bigger then comparable infantry unit. Granted, the cavalry in Ancient Greece is not the shock force we see during the medieval ages but even 3 or 4 units of tribal cavalry can easily crush a large force of pelasts / archers and if used in coordinated attack (flanking penalty) take out a brigade of hoplites in no time.

Maybe the units should be smaller then or weaker? Large cavalry armies just didn’t happen back then (they did in Persia of course but that’s another story). 6-man size of Greek cavalry works brilliantly as it makes it suitable for what it was – reconnaissance and catching routed units but never for frontal assaults. In Philip I use tribal cavalry to capture food deprived cities in the north. If you surround it with 5-6 units they can’t deploy the archers. You just wait and that’s it. A little bit gamey I’d say…

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on October 25, 2010 at 2:21 pm

Some more bugs with diplomacy:

1) After declaring a truce with a faction, if you decide to attack by just maneuvering your troops to its region, but don't attack yet and let the "truce violation" windows pops up. If you let it expire, while your units are still there, only the faction that you broke the truce with will increase in its hostility towards you. All other factions will not see an increase at all. Not sure how can this be fixed, since I'm aware it's need like that for the opposite side of the coin (if the other faction demands more money, and counter runs out, the other factions shouldn't be involved in that) Never the less, just pointing it out.

2) If you declare a truce with a faction, that has armies on it's way towards you, most will turn back, but it seems some units will continue to move forward to capture it's objective and naturally attacking that unit would automatically break the truce.

Also, I mentioned before how some cities, if you put the units outside, they don't seem to stock up on food supplies. It seems to me that's not a bug, but has to do with the stockpile in the city itself. If the city is at it's limit, then it won't disperse its food outside until it has some surplus. I find I have to lower the stockpile slightly to get the army to resupply outside which can get a bit tedious if I have multiple fronts where units are outside, so not sure if that can be looked into.

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on October 25, 2010 at 10:08 pm

The Spartans and Thebes should have their elite unit when you play sandbox.
Sparta should have their Spartiates and Thebes should have their scared band. It will make them both have formidable land army.

Level 16 Extraplanar gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on October 26, 2010 at 1:54 am

The Spartans and Thebes should have their elite unit when you play sandbox.
Sparta should have their Spartiates and Thebes should have their scared band. It will make them both have formidable land army.


Agreed, we'll try to get them in for the next update.

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on October 26, 2010 at 12:52 pm

The Spartans and Thebes should have their elite unit when you play sandbox.
Sparta should have their Spartiates and Thebes should have their scared band. It will make them both have formidable land army.


Agreed, we'll try to get them in for the next update.


That sounds really cool, as it would certainly give some flavor to the sandbox mode with the unique units going around.

Perhaps, also as you control the cities, those unique units can become yours? (like Phillip) to add a little more spice to your own faction that you control.

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on October 27, 2010 at 6:27 pm

I must say,

After about 30 hours devoted to Alpha 5, it's really coming along nicely.

I haven't experienced the Ghost Unit bug yet, and there have been a couple of times that the invasions got pretty heavy. (Man did I open the hornets nest after I went into Thebes, then Attica) Also, the new diplomacy pricing works really well for truces I must say which is awesome for a change. Since diplomacy and truce are such viable options, it really does help limit the invasions down the line in case your wondering about that.

Now that I've further play tested the alliance thing in the Phillip scenario, I must say, I still got mixed feelings about it, and not as pro-alliance as I was before, as you are right Rob that it does make some objectives trivial, but at the same time I really like the fact of having allied troops who are much, much better then mercenaries and more realistic for the time period. So perhaps some kind of compromise can be made before official release as I know some different suggestions have been thrown out there.

Granted, you can't win cheaply against factions like Sparta or Athens, or even the Illryians, since they will never ally with you because of your hostility, but those little factions, are so easy to pick on. A good example, I was able to ally with Corinth and Argos, very easily, thus my territories really expanded with the acquisition of those two factions, which is awesome, but at the same time a bit like "uhh, ok.. that was easy for a change" lol..

Anyhow, continue to keep up the good work, overall there still some minor bugs (UI pricing issues with the alliances, since it can actually be used now), but overall it's showing a lot of potential.

Level 16 Extraplanar gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on October 27, 2010 at 10:01 pm

I haven't made the changes yet but my current plan, which seems to fit with your thoughts, is to go ahead with disabling alliances in philip but as a trade off I will make units built in friendly captured cities allies rather than mercs. To keep this from being exploited i'll also have to add some extra rules for changing home cities so you can't convert your mercenaries to allies.

We'll be putting out a new build really soon that has a ton of diplomacy and objective fixes.

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on October 28, 2010 at 11:08 am

I haven't made the changes yet but my current plan, which seems to fit with your thoughts, is to go ahead with disabling alliances in philip but as a trade off I will make units built in friendly captured cities allies rather than mercs. To keep this from being exploited i'll also have to add some extra rules for changing home cities so you can't convert your mercenaries to allies.

We'll be putting out a new build really soon that has a ton of diplomacy and objective fixes.


That sounds good, as long you can take advantage of the allied features via units it totally helps tremendously and since the truce options will still be there (which is so vital to calm down some invasions on certain fronts) it's a good balance.

I still do wish, there was a way other cities can fall under your scheme of this if possible, because it would be nice to be able to recruit allied Thebian Units or even Allied Spartan Units (Since they are the best Hopolite units), to get their better morale. So not sure, if while your working on implementing this, you can also do this for some of the factions major cities or something, but that's just a thought.

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