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Pathfinding & Obstacles

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Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: Good
Posted on July 13, 2010 at 8:11 am

I don't know what is so wrong in this area, but between the following cities it is an incredible annoying task to move your troops:
Korallae - Tropeum
Tropeum - Scythia
Callatis - Odessus
Odessus - Korallae

If the area contains nothing but a straight line between the cities threw light forest, complete groups stand still just somewhere in nowhere. Sometimes I have pick each single unit and find them a path around some invisible obstacles.
Other routes contain corners which cause similar problems. Add to those obstacles the fact how embarassingly the movement of larger groups works ( it takes several ages compared to give single unites an order) and all fun is gone.

The experience in this area annoyed me so much, that I refused to play this game any further. Yesterday I gave it annother try, just with the same result. If I'd have had this experience with the demo, I wouldn't have bothered with buying this game. Sorry.

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: Good
Posted on July 13, 2010 at 8:27 am

http://www.rapidspread.com/file.jsp?id=9zcepjnaci

There you can download my save. I'm using version 1.1.1 rev. 17777.

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Posted on July 13, 2010 at 1:13 pm

There is a bug in a farm outside Odessus that has been corrected in the new 1.1.2 beta 1 version, I had a similar problem in the area and my game crashed every time I un-paused the game, but with the update problem solved...

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Posted on July 13, 2010 at 1:14 pm

And don't be so negative they are a small company that try there best to solve problems and have released one hell of a game... and no I have affiliation with them...

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: Good
Posted on July 13, 2010 at 1:59 pm

Pathfinding and group handling are essentials for such games. While I like the basic idea and realisation, I can't approve neither that larger groups spread along the screen instead of walking directly to their target nor that my support lines are lost in action due invisible obstacles while the gameplay requires my constant attention elsewhere.
Small company or not, those are nothing but basics and surely no luxury requests. And I want the basics covered from anyone where I spend my money, I guess you don't Fatarion? ;)

Level 13 Extraplanar Programmer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Location: Toronto
Posted on July 13, 2010 at 3:16 pm

This bug should be fixed in the 1.1.2 beta. Please let us know if that fixes the problem for you.

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Posted on July 13, 2010 at 7:05 pm

This has nothing to do with value for money, the groups are part of the gameplay, and although not sure if that is what was intended it is how armies marched in the ancient world, you don't like it maybe you should of tried the demo first...

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Posted on July 13, 2010 at 7:38 pm

Pathfinding and group handling are essentials for such games. While I like the basic idea and realisation, I can't approve neither that larger groups spread along the screen instead of walking directly to their target nor that my support lines are lost in action due invisible obstacles while the gameplay requires my constant attention elsewhere.
Small company or not, those are nothing but basics and surely no luxury requests. And I want the basics covered from anyone where I spend my money, I guess you don't Fatarion? ;)


This is an RTS (Real Time Strategy). That is why the "space-bar" exists, it pauses and continues your game so that you can extend your attention everywhere and not loose battles or units or cities (I have almost conquered all the map and the game does not continue for more than a few seconds without pause, I suggest you do the same, there are no support lines, the game automatically sends phalanx first then spearmen then missile units then horseback units, in battle if you select the whole army only the first line of melee fights until they are routed or the enemy routes, if you have missile units they through their missiles if enemy units are in range, if you want something else you have to pause the game (or not) and select units individually and give them orders... stockpile food with workers from farms, and capture the livestock if you want your armies not to go hungry, within the coastal cities you can from the city menu give some of the food to triremes along with a unit so that it doesn't arrive at the destination starved...

Level 13 Extraplanar Programmer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Location: Toronto
Posted on July 13, 2010 at 7:50 pm

Hey Fatarion, I know you're just trying to defend us, and I appreciate that, but there's no need to make Golwar feel unwelcome. The bug he was complaining about was legitimate (although, like I said, it should be fixed in the latest beta), and he's right that the grouping -- especially with large groups -- could use some more love.

Unfortunately, we're a small team and we can't afford to work on a project indefinitely, so eventually we had to draw a line and release the game. Rest assured that better grouping behaviour is high on our list of improvements to make for the sequel, and we appreciate your support, because it helps make that happen.

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Posted on July 13, 2010 at 7:51 pm

hmmm maybe you are right...

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: Good
Posted on July 15, 2010 at 8:42 am

Thank you Rick. I only could test the beta patch for about 1 hour, but it seems much better now. I did only send 1 single cavallery unit round the mentioned routes and it always arrived, so I guess well done. :)
As we already talked about group handling, I'd like it if groups would stick to a formation that I modified.

For example, Group "5" consists of:
* Hypaspists
* Amphictyons
* 1 Phalangite
* 4 Tribal Archers
* Agrianians

Earlier it worked that the first 3 units stood in the first row and covered the archers. I think since the Hypaspists grew a bit in size, the Amphictyons are moved in the second row. That's a double negative as it moves the archers further back, reducing their cover effect from Peltasts, while it also leaves the weaker Phalangites in the front.
I can change that manually (not that easy btw.) but it is always only a short time solution, till I have to send them into the next city. Afterwards it is resetted.

@ Fatarion
Oh please. Do I look like you need to teach me the basics of the game? Those "support lines" that I mentioned ARE my groups of workers which got MIA due the bugs.
I reported a lack of functionality and a bug. Sorry if I don't share your blind acceptance and require such things to be fixed, even when I might sound "negative". When I see a problem I complain (more so if pure basics and essential parts are inflicted), if I get a solution I'm thankful. Should be quite natural (for the majority of us).

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Posted on July 15, 2010 at 10:16 am

I am not blindly accepting everything, and I am sorry if I offended you, but whereas what you said did not offend me, the way you said it did and I expressed that, I can't be sorry if you are so "touchy" but I can offer my apologies if something I said or how I said it did, and from a point of view yes you did look like you need for not to teach you the basics of the game but for me to remind you of that, if you can't understand that that is not my problem.... now enough of this and onwards to victory lads!!!

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: Good
Posted on July 15, 2010 at 10:48 am

I am not blindly accepting everything, and I am sorry if I offended you, but whereas what you said did not offend me, the way you said it did and I expressed that, I can't be sorry if you are so "touchy" but I can offer my apologies if something I said or how I said it did, and from a point of view yes you did look like you need for not to teach you the basics of the game but for me to remind you of that, if you can't understand that that is not my problem.... now enough of this and onwards to victory lads!!!

Hm, I reported according to the developer legit bugs and request, but it offended YOU? What resulted in you trolling so much that the developer requested you to behave? And that leads you to the impression that I'm "touchy"?

Whow, first you got it absolutely right that I was in desperate need for someone to explain me RTS, Pause function and the existence of Demos and now you even recognized my touchy character. Damn! :-P
One advice: if you want peace, try at least once to drop your somewhat insulting "analysis" of the other person.

Oh my, at least in one point I can agree: "enough of this".

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Posted on July 15, 2010 at 11:03 am

I didn't get offended of what you said, reporting legit bugs is what this forum (and others like it) are for, and long before you reported this bug I and several others had as well, in my case it wasn't just units getting stuck but the game crushing, so I did understand you frustration, what I found if not offending at least irritating was how you said what you said, the tone of voice, which is why I said not to be so negative, and yes replying yet again shows that you are touchy...

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Posted on July 15, 2010 at 11:10 am

oh.. how exactly did I "insult" you? I did not call any names, I did not swear, I did not do nothing more than speak my mind in a polite and organized manner.. now if you find that "trolling" or offending, yet again not my problem mate... and without any intend to insult the developer of course he told me to "behave" because he doesn't want lose a customer and I can respect that so if you don't make any more replies I won't either unless of course it has something to do with the game and I can provide assistance, which was my initial reaction to your post by telling you to try the new beta version..

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: Good
Posted on July 15, 2010 at 12:14 pm

Well, in that case I will be so polite and tell you what was so annoying.

can't be sorry if you are so "touchy" but I can offer my apologies if something I said or how I said it did, and from a point of view yes you did look like you need for not to teach you the basics of the game but for me to remind you of that, if you can't understand that that is not my problem.

1. "Can't be sorry if you are ..."
That isn't naturally the best way to settle peace. And it's not something that I would call polite if it includes a negative evaluation of the person.

2. "from a point of view yes you did look like you need for not to teach you the basics of the game"
Another case where you blindly and unrequested made assumptions. I consider it unfriendly if you treat someone as an absolutely Newbie just because you make hasty & false assumptions.

For example, I mentioned that "large groups tend to spread all over the screen". I meant situations like this (had no better screenshots around):
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/8929/hegemonyphilipofmacedon.jpg

You set a target for a group and the units walk up and down, spreading in all directions in an endless snail trail all around. This is especially emberassing when the enemy is just around the corner or if you want to move military quickly out of the city and the whole group gets stuck after the very first unit, resulting in a defeat.

And yet you acted as if this problem doesn't exist at all and describe me that this "was intended (as) it is how armies marched in the ancient world", that I should have tried the demo, use the Pause function etc. etc.
If you would have tried to use a little tiny bit of logic you would have registered that I already mentioned in the very first posting that I played the demo. By the cities that I mentioned in my bug report, every average player should usually recognize that my little empire is far too developed to teach me about the absolute beginner stuff.
Sorry, but at that time I only thought "WTF, is this guy trying to fool me?".

You see, you make assumptions based on your completly mistaken understanding of the situation, you rate others and while the intention might have been good at the beginning, it is annoying as hell nevertheless.

In my view you acted like a fanboy who couldn't handle that someone might say something negative. I only said:
The experience in this area annoyed me so much, that I refused to play this game any further. Yesterday I gave it annother try, just with the same result. If I'd have had this experience with the demo, I wouldn't have bothered with buying this game. Sorry.


I had to search and pick 30-40 single units by hand, again and again. Find them a path by trial & error and this in case of all routes that I mentioned. And what did I say to the developer? Guys, I'm so fed up with this bug that I couldn't play it any further. Would I have experienced this sooner, I wouldn't have bought this game.
Terrible behaviour and over the top? I guess not.
"I did not call any names, I did not swear, I did not do nothing more than speak my mind in a polite and organized manner."
As you might recognize, I quoted you there too. So what was your problem? Is the freedom to speak your mind only yours and for those who don't have anything negative to report? Not to mention that it is the developer's job to handle criticism, not yours.


You didn't grant me to speak my mind first. You obviously misunderstood half of what I reported. After treating me like an amateur based on your misunderstanding, you finished with the heartwarming "I'm sorry, but I'm not sorry because you are so touchy".
My summary: thanks for the hint to the beta patch, the rest was absolutely unnecessary.

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Posted on July 15, 2010 at 12:26 pm

You obviously have misunderstood me, my intentions and what I was trying to say and prove, and I may have been mistaken in some points, but it will take too long to fully analyze this, these are things better said than written... so call it a day?

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: Good
Posted on July 15, 2010 at 12:31 pm

I understand your intentions quite well, that is also the reason why I'm not really angry. Just annoyed. ;)
I posted all this just to explain you what went wrong from my POV, because you obviously didn't register it the same way as I did. Peace bro. :-P

Level 13 Extraplanar Programmer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Location: Toronto
Posted on July 16, 2010 at 12:55 am

I got worried when I logged on and saw that you two had started arguing again, but I'm glad to see that you guys seem to have worked it out. Just try to keep it civil :)

Level 8 Human gamer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Posted on July 16, 2010 at 8:36 am

Yes we worked it out, and we were always civil... it was just... agressive negotiations... negotiations with a lightsaber... or a sarriza...