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Level 9 Human Music
Alignment: Lawful good
Location: Ireland, Waterford
Posted on May 31, 2010 at 9:35 am

Well lads.
1.1 update is brilliant I must say!
Good job!!!

I was wondering tho. Could it be possible for yee to add a feature to allow slaves to be a militia force?
After all, they are warriors in the first place!
It would be nice to have militia to protect your borders.
Like in Pella, you get a group of militia for free.
They are so handy to have to protect the main city!
I just wish i could make much more, so I could use my main army to attack cities instead of defending!


Since this is not a realistic approach. But for gameplay reasons I think it would be nice to have!

Would it be possible to mod this in perhaps?

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on May 31, 2010 at 10:44 am

After the early stages it looks like you will have enough mercenaries helping to secure the border and garrison the cities.

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Posted on May 31, 2010 at 5:59 pm

Well yes your point with the mercenaries is right, but he made a good point.
I only saw militia troops in Pella so they are obviously a game feature but they are not really an elite troop.(like the companion cavalry) Oftentimes I need more than puny spearman but I don't need phalangite or mercenary hoplites either since it would be overkill.

Some way to build them or get them for an event (idk maybe all walled cities above a certain size come with a miltia or maybe select certain "region captials" (like pella) who then get a militia troop?
Or his idea with the slaves is good as well
I do not need alot of those but at least more than 1 would be kinda nice.(ofcourse i didnt play threw the whole game so i do not know if there are more events providing you with militia)
What do you think?
Also they maybe wouldn't hurt as unit for the AI since there is kinda a gap between spearman and mercenary hoplite in terms of quality!? (some factions seem to build too many ranged units and weak infantry probably because the others are too expensive so the militia would make a good balance?)

Level 9 Human Music
Alignment: Lawful good
Location: Ireland, Waterford
Posted on May 31, 2010 at 7:45 pm

Mercs are pricey!!
Militia would be a free type unit or at least some gold to hold them!

I really would love to see them!!!
An option to change a slave into a militia!!

It would be so helpful!!

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: Chaotic evil
Location: Australia
Posted on June 2, 2010 at 8:05 am

I wouldn't mind perhaps having enemy slave being freed into service. Or captured soldiers being given a chance to join the army instead of being slaves.

Level 14 Extraplanar Programmer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Location: Toronto
Posted on June 2, 2010 at 3:13 pm

Heh, well there's one way to make slaves fight, but you wouldn't like it :)

If you want slaves to fight for you, well, I guess that's a different story. The problem with turning slaves into militia is that you could just sit back and wait for the AI to raid you to capture as many militia brigades as you need. As it is, that's not a big problem for slaves, since they're only useful for mines and construction, but it would severely change the balance of the game if you could do that with combat units.

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Posted on June 2, 2010 at 7:06 pm

Heh, well there's one way to make slaves fight, but you wouldn't like it :)

If you want slaves to fight for you, well, I guess that's a different story. The problem with turning slaves into militia is that you could just sit back and wait for the AI to raid you to capture as many militia brigades as you need. As it is, that's not a big problem for slaves, since they're only useful for mines and construction, but it would severely change the balance of the game if you could do that with combat units.


You are very right with the possibilities of players just stacking militia troops, but you could very well make a cap on how many regiments of militia you may have. Maybe for every bigger "region" you can have 1 militia troop or for 10 cities 1 unit etc...
I think it would be possible to tone that down. If you have a maximum of those "militia" troops then players would just have to capture slaves until they got full regiments.
Also then you would have to include another option besides "capture" the slaves but "recruit" them. When your unit cap for militia units is reached this option will get grayed thus only allowing for normal slaves. This would prevent people stacking normal slaves and then when their militia troops get slayed just recruit them in a sec again.

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: Chaotic evil
Location: Australia
Posted on June 3, 2010 at 12:22 am

Couldn't you have the slave soldiers have the rebellion thing. Except unlike where slaves rebel if left alone, the soldiers rebel if they outnumber regular soldiers in the immediate vicinity.

Level 14 Extraplanar Programmer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Location: Toronto
Posted on June 3, 2010 at 6:31 pm

Do you mean having your soldiers rebel when they're defeated? Currently, the AI takes no prisoners and just executes everybody, so your soldiers never really get a chance to rebel.

Actually, in an earlier design the AI would take slaves, and you could rescue them later. We had to drop that feature when we added the ability to merge slaves together, because there was no longer any way to identify who the slaves were before they were captured. It also didn't work well with the system of brigades regenerating as soon as they're defeated.

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: Evil
Posted on June 4, 2010 at 6:16 am

I like the fact AI murders everyone when they're defeated, makes me feel less of a jerk when i do the same thing :P.

Level 9 Human Music
Alignment: Lawful good
Location: Ireland, Waterford
Posted on June 4, 2010 at 7:42 am

lol I feel the same way :p
I find taking slaves to be useless really.
Good for nothing!
Only when I get a mine then they become useful :P

But I still stand at wanting a militia!!
Even an unofficial mod to allow militia instead of slave capture would be great!

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: Lawful good
Posted on June 4, 2010 at 11:40 am

The slaves and merging could be handled by simply saying that slaves of different cultures don't mix well, lore wise. Gameplay wise it could be wiser to say that AI and human slaves don't mix :)

But to the matter at hand. I agree that this could be a nice feature to have, albeit not one which should be handled by turning slaves into militia. I don't think many societies ever found it to be a good idea to arm their slaves. It might tend to.....go badly. A better solution might be to say that all cities with more than X nodes generate a militia company, since nodes say something about the economy it might be a good thing to do. More money = the citizenry have more money to outfit themselves as militia. This could also be solved by population points, but that's already reflected in the macedonian/merc troops you get.

Should be a catch though, reduce the income of the city by a bit. Possibly something like the cost of a worker unit. After all, they fight for you so they don't create trade goods, right?

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Posted on June 4, 2010 at 3:01 pm

Yeah thats pretty much how I saw it too.
Like citites with 8 nodes get a militia unit i.e. comming at a certain cost as you suggested.

Level 14 Human Shadow
Alignment: Chaotic good
Location: Earth Orbit, Preparing to Attack
Posted on June 4, 2010 at 5:55 pm

I always found I never had enough slaves for all the mines. Once you get into the various mining regions, you will never have enough slaves. Keep going after the enemy hoplites and make them slaves! You'll want them later :)

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: Evil
Posted on June 4, 2010 at 7:12 pm

I'd really love some militia, just as security around areas that are usually quite but sometimes come under attack and need someone to hold it while actual force arrives. My mines I found often came free with slaves! :P

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: Chaotic evil
Location: Australia
Posted on June 5, 2010 at 5:36 am

I guess they could just rebel as slave rebels and not have any affiliations.

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on June 6, 2010 at 9:38 pm

I haven't really found that I _need_ them yet, but it would be nice to be able to raise militia in the larger cities (large number of supply nodes), especially since the Greeks of the time were notorious for taking up arms as citizen soldiers. Even just one tips the scales toward the defenders a great deal since you don't have to wait for the defenses to bolster to decent levels ;)

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: Lawful good
Posted on June 7, 2010 at 12:15 pm

I haven't really found that I _need_ them yet, but it would be nice to be able to raise militia in the larger cities (large number of supply nodes), especially since the Greeks of the time were notorious for taking up arms as citizen soldiers. Even just one tips the scales toward the defenders a great deal since you don't have to wait for the defenses to bolster to decent levels ;)

I guess most of the Citizen soldiers are found in your regular troops. Unless I mis-remember my greek history the Hoplites were the upper class citizenry, those who could afford their own arms and armour. But still, other cities than Pella should have some spare bodies you could put on the walls in a pinch :)

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: Chaotic good
Posted on June 7, 2010 at 2:00 pm

I haven't really found that I _need_ them yet, but it would be nice to be able to raise militia in the larger cities (large number of supply nodes), especially since the Greeks of the time were notorious for taking up arms as citizen soldiers. Even just one tips the scales toward the defenders a great deal since you don't have to wait for the defenses to bolster to decent levels ;)

I guess most of the Citizen soldiers are found in your regular troops. Unless I mis-remember my greek history the Hoplites were the upper class citizenry, those who could afford their own arms and armour. But still, other cities than Pella should have some spare bodies you could put on the walls in a pinch :)

Indeed you are right, but those militia is not a normal unit. It is composed out of "too yound and too old" citizens to protect their home.
So it won't take from the regular manpower but could/should take something else (i.e. you pull down the wall and they chease to exist in example.

Level 9 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on June 8, 2010 at 1:02 pm

I've found the troop limitations versus territory to be so finely balanced in this game I can't imagine why anyone would be calling for such extreme changes. If the game is too difficult, then play it on a lower difficulty setting for a while, but thinking the game would be improved by an influx of cheap/free defenders completely misses one of the best aspects of Hegemony, the balance of resources.

Longbow has a real gem here that rewards the player actually willing to learn how to play it, there's no need for radical redesigns. After playing drek like Total War for years I'm relieved to find a game that actually expects the player to plan their moves and think about what the hell they are doing. Giving them a bunch of low-cost defenders would negate that completely, you might has well turn raids off or make the player's cities unassailable -- where's the fun in that?

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