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FRAGS/DEATHS

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Level 14 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on November 13, 2007 at 2:34 am

Hi all,

I updated the >CAT< rankings and calculated a scale for attendance as well...... to show those clans that come to battle some gratitude..

but also, serves the purpose that frags/deaths ratio ought to be set.
Last clan war, all other clans except for CAT are battling 2nd, 3rd and 4th place... since they all have one of each...lol... so who wins what?

I think it shouldn't go only by the number of frags per game but also by frags/deaths ratio (frags divided by deaths). That way people don't go behind team mates and getting easy health renewals...

Makes it more competitive, challenging and honorable :)

Comments, suggestions or questions are welcome...

Level 14 Human wizard
Alignment: Good
Posted on November 13, 2007 at 3:37 pm

If you were to take the lowest deaths when those frags equaled, what would stand is...

>CAT.1<: 156 deaths total (48, 54, 54) - Fewest deaths, 2nd place
GA: 197 deaths total (60, 72, 65) - Median number, 3rd place (below 205, which is the average of the three clans)
LWA: 262 deaths total (77, 94, 91) - Highest deaths, 4th place

Level 14 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on November 15, 2007 at 10:52 pm

thanks ChallengeSpaceYard, since no one seems to care or mind, I'll continue to use those scales... the ranking table is for CAT but if other teams want to use it as well... hence my question. I don't see any other ladders being updated...so...

Level 12 Human Tinker
Alignment: Good
Location: USA
Posted on November 15, 2007 at 11:39 pm

Frags divided by deaths is how it *should* work, so I am with Pablo on this one.

Making stats based solely on the frag count serves to make the most careless and aggressive gunslingers the 'best' in the game. That really irritates me. My frag count is not the best in the world, in normal games or in DDM games, but my death rate is usually lower than most of the 'best' players in normal LDA games because I like to be a bit careful in getting good shots that are also fun to set up.

If stats were done by frags divided by deaths, then it would be more fair for all players- the truly stupendous players would still get high rankings, but the ones who just shoot shoot shoot with no real intent to build TM skills would go down to their proper place in the statistics.

One should keep in mind that stats are the least important part of this game, but since I play with a Clan, I am compelled to care about how stats are calculated since my actions in Clan Wars and Ranked DDM reflect on the CAT Clan's reputation. I have an interest in seeing it done fairly.

Level 14 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on November 24, 2007 at 1:40 am

Lets get it stright once and for all ok boys! This is standard school yard rules we all learned , before pubity:
A run scored is a RUN we do not divide it by how many stricks, foul's or any one who did not get a hit.
A touch downd is 6 points, point after is 1 f/g 3 points, we do noy div. this by drop passes or sloppy tackles!
Street hockey a goal is a goal, we do not div. by missed shots!
In a much simple expalination If your scrub team has 8 and my team has 9 you have a choice have the 9th palyer sit on the side lines, or he doulbes as cacther for both sides, yes he can hit for both teams.If team 1 gets 5 runs and team 2 only gets 3 runs well you know the rest of the story! We never divided anything by anything, you win or you lose! Of course the altenative is not to play at all, go back to the school yard and harass the girls!
Our gaol in TM is to encourage more players to join our short handed clans.
We seem to make the same mistake with nebbies just frag the hell out of them and discourage them, I see many just jump off when a regular is on the map.
As I tried to get the team flags back on LDA so we can have the new ones get a feel for team play and not get their fannies kicked every time they log on. This would help recruite new caln players! That is my 2 half cents!...sorry for any miss spelled words or typo's :oops:

Level 12 Human Tinker
Alignment: Good
Location: USA
Posted on November 24, 2007 at 3:01 am

We never divided anything by anything, you win or you lose!

That encourages testosterone-laden frenzies rather than battle skills. I have to disagree.

Level 14 Human Shadow
Alignment: Chaotic good
Location: Earth Orbit, Preparing to Attack
Posted on November 24, 2007 at 12:18 pm

We could go a different way and look at total frags. I'm assigning leader to have 0 frags and everyone else to have negative relation to that.

Thus:

CAT.1:17+0+13 = 30
GA: 0+2+8 = 10
LWA: 31+1+0 = 32

This results in GA gaining 2nd place, CAT.1 in third, and LWA in 4th.

Level 11 Human gamer
Alignment: Good
Posted on November 24, 2007 at 6:43 pm

This does not explain I :?:

Level 14 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on November 25, 2007 at 5:15 pm

We could go a different way and look at total frags. I'm assigning leader to have 0 frags and everyone else to have negative relation to that.

Thus:

CAT.1:17+0+13 = 30
GA: 0+2+8 = 10
LWA: 31+1+0 = 32

This results in GA gaining 2nd place, CAT.1 in third, and LWA in 4th.


Not bad idea but why having someone's score wiped off? why even play for that matter...



We never divided anything by anything,.

This is in case of a tie... not trying to give better positions to clans that do not kill team-mates... although that probably should be the case...

The frags/death division should be a good neutral point system to see who wins in a tie... but total number of frags is not that bad either...

GA had 187 frags, CAT.1 had 177 frags... (not much difference), but GA had 197 deaths vs. CAT.1 156 deaths... (- 41, big difference).

I'm probably going to use JUST the frag count. But may keep a frag/death table on the side to show skills :twisted:

Therefore GA had 2nd place ;) (using the total number of frags for all 3 games)...

Level 11 Human gamer
Alignment: Good
Posted on November 25, 2007 at 5:35 pm

I prefer 50 frag in the server LDA

Level 13 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on January 4, 2008 at 1:19 am

hmm just my 2 cents but using the sports analogy here a run scored off of a sacrifice fly still counts as a score. Going with the team mentality when I was playing on dial up one of the best ways I could help out my team at times was to get in the way of fire and soak some up so that the better players could get some kills.

Again just my 2 cents.

Level 11 Human gamer
Alignment: Good
Posted on January 4, 2008 at 11:26 am

hmm just my 2 cents but using the sports analogy here a run scored off of a sacrifice fly still counts as a score. Going with the team mentality when I was playing on dial up one of the best ways I could help out my team at times was to get in the way of fire and soak some up so that the better players could get some kills.

Again just my 2 cents.



Question is the method of team :?:

Level 14 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on January 5, 2008 at 4:48 am

-

Level 14 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on January 5, 2008 at 10:31 am

just when i was intrigued to see another reply...

Level 11 Human gamer
Alignment: Good
Posted on January 5, 2008 at 12:42 pm

just when i was intrigued to see another reply...


Those expecting an answer

Level 14 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on January 5, 2008 at 6:04 pm

My opinion isn't particularly relevant. So I deleted it. But I'll weigh in anyway. :)

In the days of the old ladders Coax implemented a frag/death ladder because it was the usual suspects that always won DDMs. It was hoped that having another way of winning a spot on a ladder would increase competitive interest in the DDMs. It was abandoned in part because the same set of people that won DDMs on frag count was the same set that had the best frag/death ratio. There were some exceptions of course. But the connection between frag count and skill was proven empirically with those statistics.

Aside from the data, using simple logic proves this - at least for those like Pablito who know what it is to dominate. How many times have we fragged someone who rushed in frenetically? They make easy targets. And how do we rack up the frag count? With strategy, period. For the inexperienced it may seem like we rush in, but there is a definite plan for each weapon and each opponent. No one who wins at this game has ever done so with a frenzied rush. I'm talking general patterns of course, there are always going to be exceptions to any rule.

Frag/death should be used as a tie breaker. But imagine if you used frag/death as the only measure. That would penalize a team for allowing lesser players to join the fun. A team made of just Pablito and myself could beat a team of ten other players. Our frag count could be a fraction of theirs, but we'd still win . As Viper points out, such ideas don't play out in the real world.

Using frag count makes the most sense. The idea that frags aren't connected to skill is wrong both statistically and experientially. But... I don't really care, ;) which is why I deleted the post. I care about points of logic, which is why I was going to respond. But in practical terms that is about a ladder that I have no stake in. Truly Pablito, it's your ladder. You do with it as you wish. My opinion shouldn't and doesn't count for too much.

Level 11 Human gamer
Alignment: Good
Posted on January 5, 2008 at 6:52 pm

by what Those Asked Not sense :(

Level 14 Human gamer
Alignment: True neutral
Posted on January 6, 2008 at 9:01 pm

Thanks for completing your thoughts irascible. You're right, this frag/death option would only be beneficial in case of a tie... it wouldn't make much sense as an overall measurement although probably make things more challenging...
...and more than being my ladder... is a ladder to have.. that's why i asked for the most neutral answer... frag counts seem to be the average response so...
At this point, keeping the battles alive come first... who cares if cat is winning them all... (that is, unless you decide to show up ;))

Level 11 Human gamer
Alignment: Good
Posted on January 6, 2008 at 10:05 pm

Is correct :)