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Author Topic:   Strange Problem with Weapon Modding
bFusion
Member
posted October 02, 2002 11:48 PM            
Okay, so I'm working on this weapon and for some reason the entity is treated as "the world's", like when you kill someone with it, you don't get a point and it says "The World destroyed AI-Whatever..."

Any idea on what is wrong, or better yet; how to fix it? Let me know

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Vlad
Member
posted October 03, 2002 01:00 AM            
As far as I know, the only way that that can happen is if you have your weapon fire a spewer. Typically, weapons fire projectile-class ents. If you tell a weapon to call a spewer-class ent instead of a projectile, then the game will attribute ALL kills resulting from that spewer to The World. It's a handy thing to know, but inconvienient.

The best way around that is to create a dummy projectile with a lifespan of zero that will create that spewer when it dies. You'll get your intended result, and all the kills will go to the firing tank.

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bFusion
Member
posted October 03, 2002 01:40 AM            
Sorry, I'm still new at this modding thing, but this is what I'm making:

Back in the good 'ol days of Final Fantasy 2 there was a great spell called "Meteo" which basically showered the entire landscape with meteors. I'm trying to recreate that. Regardless if something similer has been made already, I'm just trying to make stuff to learn how to do it

Anyway, This is the order that it's set up right now.

- You pick up the gun.
- You fire the gun, which spawns a projectile(bright red laser firing straight up, 'calling the skys' or whatever, just for effect.)
- The laser projectile has the code "EntityChain0 = spewer/MeteoSpew" on it, which is supposed to create the meteors to drop on all the unhappy receiving tanks.
- It drops the meteors, but all kills are credited to 'the World' instead of the player.

Let me know if I'm doing something wrong, like I said I'm still a bit new at this and I'd appreciate any help I could get. The model making is what is daunting me next, I haven't made a model yet and, though I have the programs to do it, I just don't know how to :P

Oh well, that's for another day. Thanks for your help so far.

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Vlad
Member
posted October 03, 2002 02:04 AM            
quote:
Back in the good 'ol days of Final Fantasy 2 there was a great spell called "Meteo" which basically showered the entire landscape with meteors. I'm trying to recreate that. Regardless if something similer has been made already, I'm just trying to make stuff to learn how to do it

Good approach. The best way to learn is to experiment and do stuff that you think would be fun. Besides, sometimes the silly little mods that you start with sometimes end up being mutated into release mods (I know a few of mine have ended up like that).

quote:
- You pick up the gun.
- You fire the gun, which spawns a projectile(bright red laser firing straight up, 'calling the skys' or whatever, just for effect.)

Ok, so just to confirm, you set the launchangle in the weapon to -270, 0, 0, causing it to fire straight up, correct?

quote:
- The laser projectile has the code "EntityChain0 = spewer/MeteoSpew" on it, which is supposed to create the meteors to drop on all the unhappy receiving tanks.

Just as a heads up, the EntityChain commands execute the called entities simultaneously with the calling entities. So what that projectile does is that it calls the spewer as soon as it spawns. However, since it's a laser, and lasers are hitscan weapons (essentially infinite speed, limited distance), you SHOULD end up with the same result, but it's just messy, and it may be what's causing your problem. Try removing that EntityChain call, and instead setting Detonate = 1, then ExploEnt = spewer/MeteoSpew (both in the projectile file). The Detonate parameter tells the projectile to blow up using the ExploEnt call (as opposed to ExploHitEnt) when it reaches the end of its life without hitting anything, instead of just disappearing.

So what will happen is that your laser will go straight up, and once it goes the maximum distance (specified by HitScanRange in it's ent file), it will then call the spewer.

I hope that helps.

quote:
The model making is what is daunting me next, I haven't made a model yet and, though I have the programs to do it, I just don't know how to :P

If you learn how, teach me

That's something I've never been able to wrap my brain around. You'd be surprised how much you can do in Treadmarks with just ent files, though. There may be some severe limitations, but it is rather flexible.

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bFusion
Member
posted October 03, 2002 02:25 AM            
I got it to work; what I did was put the EntityChain file within the explosphere on the hit detection for the projectile. Since the initial laser also deals a small amount of damage (pushin that energy to drop those meteors sure take a lot out of you) when the hit animation goes off, it triggers the spew. Works great now, now I'm just trying to balance it so it doesn't obliterate everyone on the map and is still useful.

About the modeling. I used to do lots of 3D modeling stuff, so the creation isn't the problem, it's the skinning. Whenever I see those UV maps in the textures folder I just go into a corner and cry because it seems really confusing I guess it'll just take a bit of time to get the hang of it.

Thanks again for your help, I really appreciate it!

(Edit: Oh, and the laser doesn't fire straight up, it's actually set to fire straight down from 300 meters up, that way it'll damage the firing tank. I doubt I'll keep the damage just because you can't drop weapons, so if you are at like 3 health and pick up a meteo, it's basically find a repair powerup or suicide. I don't like that deal. I wish you could drop weapons though )

[This message has been edited by bFusion (edited October 03, 2002).]

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Rex R
Member
posted October 03, 2002 02:46 AM            
heh basic skinning isn't overly hard (I managed to figure it out) main thing is to start out slow with a simple mesh (a cube or pyramid will do) till you learn the tools. then work your way up from there. hardest part is fitting all your textures onto one bmp( thats when you start using space saveing techniques like mapping both left and right sides a time to the same bit of texture, handy for stuff that does not require separate textures like the tread bogies)

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bFusion
Member
posted October 03, 2002 10:49 AM            
Yeah, I'm quite good at Photoshop (since it's my job and all) so I know how to edit the images. All my weapons are reskinned with the Mine Layer model so far. Just lookin' for something fresher

Sooner or later I'll try and get into the 3D modeling again and make some of my own stuff, thanks again for the help, I really appreciate it!

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Jeff/Lightning4
Member
posted October 04, 2002 01:06 AM            
Someones already made a kinda similar weapon. Its the R.A.M. Weapon, which calls a few airstrike like meteors that add to the landscape. You could try adding more ammo to that.

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wolfman
Member
posted October 04, 2002 08:48 PM            
Another similar one I believe was in the STORM mod - Rain - though that added little bumps all over to the terrain - though if one made them craters instead would be like a meteor shower. Just a thought JT

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bFusion
Member
posted October 07, 2002 12:09 PM            
Yeah, when I made this weapon I figured that some stuff like it has already been done (heck, this is just a modified Air Strike anyway), but I'm more doing this for the proof-of-concept; or just to prove that I can do something like this from scratch. It's a learning experience. Plus, I like having my own custom weapons around because then I feel all big and special when I frag bots with them

But yeah, my next job is to make a spellbook for it (seeing that this is the Meteo Spell) and then skin it. I was thinking about having a series of spells. Magic missile would be great (great homing power, but short distance), another one I was thinking about is the Ultima spell from Final Fantasy 3 or so. Fun stuff, thanks again for your help

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coaxs
Member
posted October 07, 2002 01:32 PM            
Once your done with it, let me try it out.

------------------
Tread Marks Ladders

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bFusion
Member
posted October 09, 2002 01:22 AM            
sure thing! Two problems with it right now:
1) No model/skin (heh)
2) Projectiles seek too much.

Number two is kinda touchy, can't have too many to wipe out the map but I don't want the meteors to 'funnel' down onto one person digging a huge hole. Takes a lot of messing with the mod.

Oh, is there a way to test the mod without saving it, starting TM, playing a game, shutting down TM, changing it, saving it, starting TM, etc? That's kind of cumbersome, I guess. From what it seems; TM seems to compile all the ENT files and such right when it loads up so you can't just alt-tab out and make fixes. Anyone have a way around that? It's no big deal really

I'll let you all know when I'm done with the Meteo Spell, it's really nice looking so far. Thanks again

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Vlad
Member
posted October 09, 2002 01:41 AM            
Nope, no way to make TM make changes to ENTs on the fly.

That's pretty much how it is for any game, really. The resources get loaded into RAM from the saved files, so altering the files on the hard drive does nothing (or screws something up).

I do wish there was a way to set command line parameters to say, start a single player game of treadmarks with X amount of bots on Y map. That'd make the debugging process a little less painful, as you wouldn't have to go through the menus every time.

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Rex R
Member
posted October 09, 2002 01:45 AM            
Q what sort of model did you have in mind?

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bFusion
Member
posted October 09, 2002 02:10 AM            
I'm not really sure, I was thinking that if it's a spell I might just make a spellbook, which would be pretty quick and dirty to do. Just a few cubes, really. With good texturing it could be done simply and still look nice. I haven't really considered it, I've been busy with other stuff as of later unfortunately.

Sooner or later I'll get to it. I wanted to make a set of spells. I have a few other ideas I wanna play with, I can use the same model with different skins for different spells. Yum.

(Edit: Well I've messed with Lightwave for the last few hours trying to get the textures to actually wrap around the poly. I took basically a random object, that turned out to be a liquid tank turret, and am trying to skin it just so it LOOKS like a weapon. I got the skin and all, but I don't know how to MAKE a UV map, much less attach it to a file so TreadMarks can recognize it. Please, if someone knows anything about making models and skinning them, preferably in Lightwave, let me know. I would greatly appreciate it! Thanks.)

[This message has been edited by bFusion (edited October 09, 2002).]

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Rex R
Member
posted October 09, 2002 03:04 AM            
heheh there is a 'book' mesh in tm,(look under objects), and for that matter a keyboard mesh
I have on occasion done up 2 or more variations of a mod so I could test more than one change per session(can get a bit confusing tho)

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Rex R
Member
posted October 09, 2002 03:12 AM            
sorry can't help with lightwave(though there is undoubtedly a lw user here) I generally use zmodeler for final assembly and uv mapping (still need to use lithium's unwrapper to generate .luv files) the manual for zmod reads a tad strange...til you realize that it was written by a russian as a second language
there are lw users here http://www.revoltdownloads.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi
yes I know 'wrong' game however mapping is mapping they are mostly a friendly bunch. prolly best if you didn't mention just which game you're editing for...just mention the basic problem (not sure if lw by itsself can do uv mapping, ver 5.6 lwo format does not support it, AFAIK)

[This message has been edited by Rex R (edited October 09, 2002).]

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BamZipPow
Member
posted October 09, 2002 10:20 AM            
Lightwave? That's Killer's arena...

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KiLlEr
Member
posted October 09, 2002 12:17 PM            
LUV from lightwave?

2 words:

Not Possible

Lightwave dosn't use UV coords. It uses center and size. Although LIghtwave 7 has some UV support, it isn't that great, and internally it still uses Center/Size. Which is a pity, since I like Lightwave's airbrush tool.

You'll have to load the finished models (in Lightwave 5.x format, and make sure to triangulate them in lightwave before saving by hitting left shift-t) into LithUnwrap and apply the texture maps there.

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bFusion
Member
posted October 09, 2002 12:20 PM            
That's prolly why I couldn't get it to work. And I agree that the UV support is pretty crummy. Okay, well I'll work on this a bit more then

Thanks again, hopefully this'll turn out someday

(Edit: I found that book model, that should work just fine. It looks kind of strange, driving around with a spellbook tacked on to your butt. But the effect seems to work very nice. Thanks for referencing me to that. I'll get this modeling/skinning yet

[This message has been edited by bFusion (edited October 09, 2002).]

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