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Author Topic:   Tank Styles
Manray
Member
posted January 12, 2001 03:52 PM         
Being new to the game, I'm curious as to whether there are any advantages with going with one style of tank over another, or is it just a question of stylistic preference? Do the longer traditional tanks have a tougher time in tight reveens (sp) than say a Dwarf tank? I ask this because I've been a Descent 3 player for a while where there are advantages and disadvantages among the various ship types.

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coax
Administrator
posted January 12, 2001 05:09 PM            
Yes, I would definately say their are differences in the way the Tanks perform. But the differences are not as drastic as those on Descent. I don't know for sure, because I haven't checked all the .ent files but thats just the way the tank "feels."

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Random Chaos
Member
posted January 13, 2001 11:06 AM            
Tanks...

Steal tanks tend to have slightly better defense but slightly lower acceleration than liquid tanks. The Liquid Mite is an exception: it has almost no armor but high speed and acceleration.

Each tank also has a different body configuration. This configuration determines how easily it can flip back right side up after being thrown upside down. How easily it can climb hills. How it performs when turning on non-level ground, etc. Also the smaller the body of the tank, the harder it is to hit...

My personal favorites are:
Liquid Dragon (Good all arround tank - more fun for DM then the Dwarf)
Dwarf (Good all arround tank - more fun for jousting then the Dragon)
Liquid Gull with minor acceleration increase (good only with that acceleration increase - has a hard time climbing hills otherwise)

I know one person that likes the Liquid Platapus on water levels since it's low enough to be nearly completely obscured when in water.

--RC

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GoldAnt_Number1
Member
posted March 19, 2001 07:59 PM            
I like the liquid zodiac, the iquid meanace (for racing), Rex R's recon ( with the tankgun1 otherwise i run outa ammo to fast), And i like the liquid mite (For CTF and i think you can guess why) And i like the Dwarf, And the barbarian.

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coax
Administrator
posted March 19, 2001 08:18 PM            
you just like everything doncha

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kv
Member
posted March 20, 2001 08:02 PM            
I find that Claymore, my favorite tank, has difficulties with terrain at times. A tight crevase can cause it to become stuck if I am going across it instead of running down it length. The trade off for this problem is Claymore's weight and low profile. I once took 3 dirt ball shots in a row without being thrown like a lighter tank would.

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Dreamer
Member
posted March 20, 2001 08:22 PM         
There's nothing as cool as the good ol' destroyer, if you ask me. Especially with the "old" skin...
But then again, nostalgia is the only real reason for this, Im afraid - TM Test 1 rocked.

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Kaeto
Member
posted March 20, 2001 09:07 PM            
Yes, TM Test 1 was a blast

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A2597
Member
posted March 23, 2001 07:07 PM            
I acctually will edit every single tank once I get the game. the way I do it is so liquid tanks have slower excel, but higher top speed. (Less friction with the ground) and a different class of weapon, plasma, fire, etc.
whilest Metal tanks have high excel, but lower top speed, and have everything from the regular tank gun to conks, dirtballs, MRLs, missiles. I did this with the old demo, it was AWSOME! every tank had it's strenghts and weaknesses. I was always the Plasma Fulcan though. (Liquid Falcon with Blueish skin, rather then white), it had the Plasma Storm as the main gun. only problem was you had to be carful with your shots....waist even one and you could die...LOL!

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The Weatherman
Member
posted May 08, 2001 03:17 PM         
I took a look at the ent files and found that there is no obvious difference between the armor of a steel and a liquid (exception mite) or its acceleration/top speed setting. The main difference seems to be that the mass of most liquids is set to .5 and steels is not set (default 1). Obviously, a lighter tank will be more manueverable (less inertia to overcome) and more flippable. I don't understand what the source of the perceived armor difference is. Does weight have some effect on armor? What formula does TM use to calculate damage? I know the back has less armor than the front... HOw about the sides, top, and belly? Any real #s on this?

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The Weatherman
Member
posted May 08, 2001 06:09 PM         
Okay, I did some ole fashioned tests using a platypus and a Barbarian using only the main gun.
Per shot, the platy took 20 damage to the front, 40 to the rear, and ~23 to the side.
Per shot, the Barbarian took 15 to the front, 30 to the rear and ~18 to the side.

So, although the armor isn't specified in either .ent (and so shuld default to 1), the lighter tank takes more damage per hit. So I guess the platy is a bit fragile . This is probably hidden in the tank type def or something or is controlled by the weight, so it should be a general difference between steels and liquids. Definitely need to rethink some of my attack strats

Interesting to note, the Platy was hard to hit - needed to use another platy to hit it easily and reproducibly. Also, the Barbarian seemed to get damaged differently if I hit it in the back of the turret(less damage) or the lower part of the tank body, rear. So, do turrets have different armor ratings than the rest of the body?

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JVortex
Member
posted May 09, 2001 12:19 AM            
i think that chances are that turrets are treated as front armor. ive noticed a few times w/ the Draconian that if an air strike is heading your way and u try to run but due to bad terrain or whatever u dont get away and u get fragged.

but ive also tried just sitting still when u kno its comming and u kno u cant get away in time. normally u take one bomb and then are thrown clear and still have ~20 or so life left.

from what ive seen the underside of a tank is treated like reqr armor, or maybe even worse than that

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Rex R
Member
posted May 09, 2001 02:14 AM            
idle thought most liquid tanks are just chock full of curves and of those on the sides a fair number of which angle towards the back soo.. mayhap damage is calculated according to which direction the face (poly) is facing

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Rex R
Member
posted May 09, 2001 04:22 AM            
after further thought it is more likely that damage is calculated as to where in relation to the world origin point (basically where the turret pivots) so given that, a tank with a turret mounted near the aft end should be harder to frag than a tank with the turret mounted near the front

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Dreamer
Member
posted May 09, 2001 07:47 AM         
I don't know about turrets, but my guess is that armor zones could be determined by simply placing a bounding box around the tank and dividing it into four sectors. That way, cpu load would be minimal and fairness about optimal, with the job done quite well nevertheless.

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coax
Administrator
posted May 09, 2001 04:39 PM            
if you guys really want to know, go onto a server. I'll hit you with the pea shooter accurately and reproducibly with my polys faced in whatever direction. And you can say how much damage was done where and how much.

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peeeto
Member
posted May 09, 2001 08:30 PM         
collision detection is determined by bounding box (top, bottom, fron, back & sides). see the discussion:
tank shape question

i'm not sure if two bounding boxes are used - one for the turret & one for the body, or if one bbox encompases both... but i think that Jim's response states that there are separate bboxes for each.

one thing is for certain - the gun mesh does not have a bbox, and thus has no impact on collision detection.

one side-note on the above: if i remember correctly, Lithium's tutorial on texturing a TM tank model instructs the user to include the gun mesh as part of the turret... this makes the tank a larger target, and is not consistent with how the original tanks are constructed. the gun barrel should be separate. i'll have to remember to email Lithium about that

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peeeto
Member
posted May 09, 2001 08:32 PM         
p.s. Lithium is still going strong on improving the UnWrapper utility!
the latest version is dated 5/9/01.

Lithium's UnWrapper

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JVortex
Member
posted May 10, 2001 12:52 AM            
so then that would be one of the disadvantages of the liquid tanks then? since they only have 1 mesh for both barrel and turret?

also accordint to his tutorial he uses the tron tank for an example. thats probably y its stated that way (granted i havent looked at that in a long time). the tron is (i believe) the only metal tank to have a 1 piece turret/ barrel.

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peeeto
Member
posted May 10, 2001 06:56 PM         
no, JV - the as far as i can tell, all of the liquid tanks have 3 meshes...
look at entities\RaceTank\Liquid7.ent (the Menace) as an example.

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JVortex
Member
posted May 10, 2001 08:36 PM            
ok, youre right. i just went and glanced thru the folders and some liquids do and some dont. guess before i was just looking at the ones that didnt

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peeeto
Member
posted May 10, 2001 08:53 PM         
ok - thanks, JV. i didn't think that any of them had combined turret/gun.

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The Weatherman
Member
posted May 11, 2001 09:25 PM         
Whuff.... I think that I got most of that. Gracias for the reply. My head hurts

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GUIDO
Member
posted May 31, 2001 06:41 PM         
FUN

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