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Author Topic:   DMF Down till further notice
=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted November 12, 2004 04:08 AM            
Woke up this morning to find nobody can login, everybody get an error - please bear with me while i fix this.... at worst case scenario ill upload the recent backup, but ill try n fix the problem first.

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted November 12, 2004 08:22 AM            
Ok all fixed and back online - big thx to Kong for screwing my board up this morning - really appreciated that... 11 hrs downtime... Cheers, hope you have a good Christmas too.

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KONG
Member
posted November 12, 2004 08:30 AM            
umm, all I did was delete my profile. If that was the cause of the problem then I am sorry. I did not intend for anything bad to happen, all I did was click the button that says delete user. You should be able to verify that in your server log or the forum clicklog.

If you know anything about me you should know by now that I wouldn't do that sort of thing on purpose.

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KONG
Member
posted November 12, 2004 08:46 AM            
So it was a bug with the forum script?

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KONG
Member
posted November 12, 2004 08:53 AM            
I guess it was
http://www.boardmod.org/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=general;action=display;num=1100250298

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted November 12, 2004 10:08 AM            
Yup, there was a bug in the board script... not that i knew when i fired off... it looked like something deliberate and intentional. Still id rather have known if you wanted to remove yourself.

The delete button has now been removed from user profiles and the script bug fixed.

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Random Chaos
Member
posted November 12, 2004 12:23 PM            
Heh...

So when one wishes to erase themselves, they may now only change their profile to show a blank face?

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Random Chaos

Admin for Tread Marks Modifications Database
Please add a link to my site to improve Google rankings
randomc@treadmarks.cjb.net

[EDIT] - fixing sig error

[This message has been edited by Random Chaos (edited November 12, 2004).]

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted November 12, 2004 08:22 PM            
Within reason yeah, you could pick a blank avatar, but you couldnt leave the email field blank, nor others inc display name... but effectively yeah you could wipe it, just not delete it.

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GoldAnt_Number1
Member
posted November 13, 2004 02:30 PM            
mh, just rename yourself to "deleteme".... hehe

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Sailor
Administrator
posted November 13, 2004 09:24 PM            
Not cool to remove someones ability to leave without permission. It is a persons right to leave for whatever reason they wish without having to ask permission or notify someone that they are doing so. You should not impose a dictatorial stance about having to know that someone is leaving. If the error in your board script is corrected then leave them the option to stay or leave of their own accord. You speak eloquently about your rights many times, but then to deny others those same rights - definitely not living up to your own statements about freedoms. Now give back the delete button and say your sorry for denying others the same priviledges you would ask for yourself.

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May you always have a following Sea a cool breeze at your back and the comfort of those you hold nearest to your heart.
Sailor's Home Port


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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted November 14, 2004 06:48 AM            
Nope - it leaves horrible white users marked as "guest" all over the board. When a person decides to vacate the forum they can blank out their profile and ill suspend their account so they can no longer use it... it avoids those nasty white membernames in posts.. looks awful. Also its a form of protection in NOT allowing it.

For example... (and you may not know this) ... Lets say Kong deletes his profile... and wonders off to enjoy a carefree life.. 2 weeks later another "kong" decides to sign up.. Because the user "kong" still exists in guest mode, and his posts are still on the forum, the new "kong" automaticly becomes owner of those posts - in effect, reactivating the account but with new details.

So in fact ppl still have the freedoms you ask Sailor, except theyr account doesnt become inactive, to be "Reactivated" at a later time.... instead it goes into a suspended membergroup with no posting or viewing rights - in essence ... LOCKED.

This protects the user and the posts.

Heres an example...

Kong deletes his profile... some1 here who may not like him sees it and signs up as "kong", adds new details and uses the reactivated acount to cause mayhem in his name.. its no longer the real "kong" - but it may cause him a lot of greif because to all intents and purposes, his name and details are in every post, except of course the password would be different.

See Im doing ppl a favour.

Now... "Quersys" (aka Kong) deleted his account, I have nothing to put into suspension, so if at some future point another "kong" signs up - the name isnt in the members database anymore and they would take control of his posts.

Then i ask myself...

Should i do the original kong a favour and suspend this new "kong" - or is new "kong" gernuine who just wants to post... then the door opens for a whole lot more admin issues when the real kong gets told "why are you being a dork on dmf boards" - he investigates, doesnt like what he sees, and saysto me, "can you sort that out".. and i have to answer "no - i cant, that name is under another owner and account now, and i have to respect their rights and priviledges, after all, they are a posting member, you are not..."

Now i COULD wait for ppl to delete their account, then follow them in, recreate that user name and put it into suspend mode.. but why go through the hasstle for somebody who quite clearly doesnt care.. if womebody else takes over their posts and account its their hard lookout.

Now its true that a new signup cant post until an administrator (me or Ni) grant em the right to, and i reserve that right as an aid to keep spammers away. But IF everybody went atround deleting their accounts (and remember its the login that is left, not the display name as you know the poster), theres no way i could remember them all JUST IN CASE somebody comes along and decides to use their name.

In short - its no good moaning about it after the fact, the onus is clearly on the user to maintain their account - Every board facility is provided FREE for users at MY expense... so live members will always take preference over non-members too obviously - think how it looks when i start suspending live posting accounts at the request of a non forum member.

Yes that little old delete button can cause a barrel of fun for sure, but once youve left the forums, whatever happens after is YOUR fault, not admins. Admin didnt delete your account, and Admin didnt write the yabb software. Admin didnt MAKE you press the delete button, Admin didnt ask you to leave.. you make ya choices and you live with em.

Sorry

Delete button is gone forever

(EDIT)

For peace of mind, ive added kong and all his alias's to the reserved name list so that nobody can do what i typed above.

[This message has been edited by =DNX= Matrix (edited November 14, 2004).]

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Sailor
Administrator
posted November 14, 2004 09:40 PM            
Sounds more like you have an issue that needs to be taken up with the YABB support people. I can see your points, but can you see mine. Perhaps with the removal of a profile that person wants to remove all posts that they put into the forum. They should have the right to remove their posts in a case like that without having to find all of them and then editing them empty. Just a thought. The real issue is not the forum questions of ownership, but the question of the program not performing properly. When someone wants to delete their profile then it should provide options to both remove them and the items they have posted either by turning them over to the forum for posterity or removing them if that is their choice. Leaving them on the forum can be done by reassigning them for ownership without changing who entered them (not hard to do). Removal their option. Fixing the problem the creators of the forum softwares issue. They just have to be informed of it and asked for a proper solution.

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May you always have a following Sea a cool breeze at your back and the comfort of those you hold nearest to your heart.
Sailor's Home Port


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Irascible
Member
posted November 14, 2004 10:17 PM            
This is sooo not my business. But I can't help it. Anytime I hear someone talking about rights my ears perk up. So many nincompoops think they have rights to this that and the other (ALWAYS at someone else’s expense) when they have no such thing.

Given that you and I usually agree Sailor, and given that you're certainly not a nincompoop, I'm curious as to your reasoning. It seems to me that when you post on a privately owned forum which is expressly there for public use, there is every reason to believe that those postings are now and forever a part of the public domain. Even if you could delete them they will easily live on as saved files on someone's hard drive, including Google's and other search engines' cache.

Furthermore it seems clear to me that even if it's not in writing, forums can be viewed in a similar light as a letter to the editor. Once you submit a letter it can be edited and printed across the planet if they so choose and you have nothing to say about it. The whole “once you send it in it becomes property of X” thing is pretty well established.

Just a thought. In a strictly legal sense I could be wrong. But I have been pretty consistent in this view when rights on this forum or on game servers comes up. The forums and servers are the private property of others. Private property rights being what they are, the owners can for the most part do what they will. Any attempt on their part to be "fair" is pure gravy IMO.

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted November 14, 2004 11:50 PM            
I can see your points Sailor yes, and your Ras, though for the most part Ras is more in the right.

Once posted the data becomes property of the forum owner as its sat on his or her system, while a person still owns an account, they may feel free to remove posts at will, some forums even restrict this to 1 hour after initial posting - i do not.

But once a person has relinquised their account, they have no rights of any kind over the materials they have posted.

Removal of all their posts is a non-option as it would break so many threads into complete discontinuity.

While its true yabb is good, it has a long way to go (hence mods), and im sure there will be a lot of versions yet to come.

Removal of posts along with an account i would never allow as it would do more harm than good. I have the ability to do this through the admin centre manually (search all posts of user, select all, delete), but i will only use that if we ever get a mass spammer or serious abuser posting.

Any data you enter on a public forum you submit having agreed to a set of rules and standards at signup; you also place yourself in the perview of the administrator/owner whos sole right it is to decide how best to manage the board, and posters must abide by those decisions.

Everyone has the option to leave, thats freedom of choice, free will, but posts stay unless the owning poster removes them, and if the owner is daft enough to remove themselves and prevent themselves doing just that, instead letting the admin do the donkey-work by request (unlikly btw), then its more fool them, because i wont.

All my facilities are free for use & unlimited, thats the boards, the 30 gig ftp, the image hosting, the music ratings, the calendar, the album etc etc etc.... All registered members have the ability to edit/remove any post they have made. Non members have no rights at all after forfeiting them when leaving by the door.
Members who wish to use the facilities must accept the conditions under which the system is run.

And if you think im being tough, have a look at the ka-bloom forum ( http://www.ka-bloom.org/forum/ ) - have a read of their rules n regs, then consider if im being fair with my conditions.

I accept your points Sailor - but DMF has run smoothly for 2 years - im not about to change anything now, especially not as such changes would constitute damage to threads in favour of a member who simply "wants to leave" and have no further input.

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Sailor
Administrator
posted November 15, 2004 01:40 PM            
I am not in disagreement with rights of ownership of any information posted on any forum so don't get the wrong idea about deletion of posts it was just a point. However my main point was allowing a profile to be deleted if a person wanted to leave and not return using that profile. That is where I was saying that posts could be transferred to say the forum owner without being renamed as to who posted them and the profile could then be removed with say a listing in a file within the forum not allowing that profile name to be reused thus preserving the information for posterity and still allowing the person to remove themself as they feel fit. Simply a thought as to the individuals rights with respect to their profile not public domain information.

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May you always have a following Sea a cool breeze at your back and the comfort of those you hold nearest to your heart.
Sailor's Home Port


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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted November 15, 2004 02:22 PM            
I agree and respect that right... once a profile is in suspension and locked, it can never be used by anyone else. Call it my way of getting around the shortfall of the code.

Ppl do have the right to edit thir profile in any way, there is an email at the top of the forum to tell me or ni to suspend the account so it cannot be used. I would remove the users email and change the password to prevent further use. Other solutions are most definately the long way around; as far as DMF boards go anyhow.

The only profiles that get deleted are the ones with no posts after 3 months of membership. All rules are clearly stated on the signup agreement. And by clicking "I Agree" at the bottom, you sign to say you have read, and will abide by the conditions of use.

Profiles with zero posts are removed as they simply take up pointless space, i like things tidy, so the number of members you see listed, are the number of actual contributors to the board.

Beyond that i dont stop anyone changing anything in their profile so long as it does not conflict with the laws of the Uk or the Signup agreement.

Deletion of profiles has now been made an admin only function; for the benefit of the board and the remaining posters whom value continuity and the staving away of possible profile abusers who may seek to recapture aomeone elses profile in order to tarnish their name.

Reassigning posts to a hidden membergroup or dead profile status after deletion achieves the same result as my method - perhaps if the ppl at boardmod find a solution which is compatible with my boards, then ill install it and hand that power back to the user - but until that happens, the delete function lies within the admin centre only.

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VorDesigns
Member
posted November 22, 2004 08:53 PM            
Only one thing I see missing here:

Kong, I'm sorry that an action you took popped up a bug in software that I did not write, you did not write and I because of my many responsibilitiees did not patch properly.

I apologize for pubilic smacking you in this forum, I was upset and as we all know, when I get mad, well, I get mad.

Please accept my apology.

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted November 23, 2004 08:09 AM            
yeah, that , plus im also sorry he cant take a point like an adult, but takes his bat n ball home like a 4yr old when he has his points debated against.

Im sorry he cant respect the dead, im sorry he cant see the big picture or both sides of any event, preffering a singular vision and understanding which MUST be right. Im also sorry he has the inability to take polite advice or follow simple forum ettiquette.

Im sorry he denegrated a thread to do with the death of a head of state with slander and im sorry he got all mad at me for politely suggesting his remarks would be better off in the approprite forum having followed the onscreen instructions and emailed the moderator of that board for the password to do so.

Im sorry im not educated to Ivy League standard in PERL scripting, and was'nt psychic enough to read the pc's mind to know the bug was there in the first place.

Im also sorry that i provide free services for ppl to use as they wish rather than slag off at the first chance they get when reading an older post while not knowing the whole story.

Im sorry America is in bed with Israel and refused to deal with Arafat, maybe this is a good time to bring up bombing of civillian targets or the toturing happening in Guantannamo Bay to British nationals (remember, that thing we took saddam down for... now we cant find WMD and needed a fallback position...)

Im sorry the American President sees it as his personal role to walk all over the world telling ppl to dissarm and live as i say you should while still keeping his own WMD.. Im sorry he also signed the accord to cut back on use of OIL to benefit the world's health and ignores it, im also sorry he recently sold Taiwan $6Bn of weapons... but tells the world this is a bad thing... (see the recent Korea statement about dissarming).

Im sorry ppl have incredibly limited vision when differentiating between freedom fighters and terrorists.... (i could go on but i wont)

Yes, im so very sorry.. please accept my apology.

[This message has been edited by =DNX= Matrix (edited November 23, 2004).]

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Sailor
Administrator
posted November 23, 2004 10:35 PM            
I am sorry you are so sorry - but then nevermind.....

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May you always have a following Sea a cool breeze at your back and the comfort of those you hold nearest to your heart.
Sailor's Home Port


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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted November 23, 2004 11:13 PM            
exactly lol - we're both in fault and no apologies should be necessary lol...

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Irascible
Member
posted November 24, 2004 03:58 AM            
So many incredibly liberal view points. So little time.

Arafat and his PLO:
-Pioneered airline hijackings.
-In 1972 11 unarmed Israeli athletes at the Olympic Village in Munich were slaughtered by 8 members of Arafat's PLO faction as ordered by Arafat.
-He ordered the execution of American Ambassador to Sudan Cleo No'l and numerous other diplomats.
-During the 12 year civil war in Lebanon caused by Arafat's attempt to assume power there, he occupied the Christian city of Damour. Out of 30,000 residents his thugs slaughtered 10,000 - in many cases literally hacking them up with machetes. When the leader of Damour refused to cooperate that leader's daughter was kidnapped, raped, her breasts cut off and then delivered back to her father in a sack.

The only thing separating Arafat and Hitler was that Arafat didn't have the resources of an entire sovereign nation to commit his mass murder. God bless Churchill and Eisenhower for not making deals with Hitler. God bless George W Bush for not making deals with the heinous evil that was Arafat.

Those who will recoil at what appears to the beginning of a political debate might want to think twice. Firstly, there is no debate. Arafat's trail of blood is historical fact. And just as importantly when someone suggests dealing with a blood thirsty monster is the way to go, THAT should be what you recoil against. When someone implies that those who murdered an innocent female aid worker and sawed the heads of MANY innocent contractors off are somehow freedom fighters (if only I had vision to see it), THAT is what you should recoil against. And when someone implies that nukes in the hands of western nations is the same as in the hands of Iranian or North Korean crackpot dictators, well – it’s just utterly amazing how f’ed up the world really is.

If you mods decide to lock or move this, fine. But you can’t expect me to stand by while someone suggests we should of dealt with that Hitler in a headscarf.

[This message has been edited by Irascible (edited November 24, 2004).]

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted November 24, 2004 06:55 AM            
" God bless George W Bush for not making deals with the heinous evil that was Arafat."
- Unlike his dad that made deals with the EVIL VILE Saddam Hussein right ? lol ...

"But you can’t expect me to stand by while someone suggests we should of dealt with that Hitler in a headscarf."
- Why break the habbit of a lifetime, Bush Snr. did it lol...

Ill accept american political morality when the american government stops torturing Iraqi's, shooting them in the back of the head and embarrasing them, and oh ya - torturing BRITISH citizens at Guantannamo Bay - Oh and did i mention the sales of arms to Taiwan ? Wonder how many ppl will die because of that little deal... not killing innocents - HAH - The American gov CAUSES IT, who do you think armed Saddam and taught them how to use the weapons lol...

PLO - L = Liberate, and usually by any means necessary - hang on did i just quote Bush.... Yup lol...

Arafat was a slayer true - but his ppl loved him... Bush is a slayer and murderer too, he just puts a nice face on and dresses it up. Blair is as bad.. Even ex-prime minister's son Mark Thatcher was out these selling arms at the time.. in fact, he's up in court today for trying to overthrow a foreign government.. lovely ppl lol...

Ppl shouldnt throw stones when they live in glass-houses ras. American still has WMD right ? wont give em up - sells em to the highest bidder and runs all over the globe trying to dissarm everyone else - sounds like a dictator to me m8 lol...

YO N.Korea - give ur your nuke programs, you too Iran, you too Syria... and what is America giving up ? NOTHING, its just dictating to the rest of the world - and the world hates america for it. So ya i tend to agree with ya ras, the world is WELL f'ked up - i have a detailed history on how Israel became if youre interested in how the country got split up and the occupation of palestine began.. in the very thread that Kong walked away from in fact.

Cause - Effect - Cause - Effect .... swings n roundabouts.... if you dont want to visit DMF to read im happy to copy it across for your delectation - then you can see who moved in on who first

Just think of a man defending his home - but on a much larger scale... When a robber wont leave your house when asked, you club him - you like your plasma tv and computer, dont let him take it lol... "by any means necessary".

[This message has been edited by =DNX= Matrix (edited November 24, 2004).]

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Sailor
Administrator
posted November 24, 2004 12:21 PM            
Enough of this off topic political BS. Go to the general forum.

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May you always have a following Sea a cool breeze at your back and the comfort of those you hold nearest to your heart.
Sailor's Home Port


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