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Author Topic:   pics clan battle 8-29-04
harmless
Member
posted August 29, 2004 09:14 PM            
the pics are here if you are curious

aug 29th 2004 clan war

toodles
harmless

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VorDesigns
Member
posted August 29, 2004 09:17 PM            
Why bother, I wasn't invited.

P. S., Good pics, missing my scores for two games, but I guess I need to move so I know when to show up.

[This message has been edited by VorDesigns (edited August 29, 2004).]

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted August 29, 2004 09:53 PM            
Game 1 :
--------
Void it or follow the scores below ... we have rules and hidden ports for a reason.
TEAM 2's win is voided as its 2 clans : correct scores are

GA - 82 - 1st place
LWA - 61 - 2nd Place
DNX - 58 - 3rd Place
BWL - 42 (inc minus 21 for the no-namer)
FL - 39
CAT - 39
DOG - 22

I know its not fair on BWL to lose 21 points, but the rules are there for a reason, its upto each clan to make sure they ONLY give out these details to their OWN clansmen. Any one of the teams could have lost those points.

Game 2:
-------
Split up RED Team scores. I would also be tempted to add a penalty as they cant frag each other and fairly score.

Ga - 74 - 1st place
Dnx - 63 - 2nd Place
Lwa - 59 - 3rd Place
Cat - 43
Fl - 31
Dog - 14
Bwl - 11


Game 3:
-------
Ga - 87 - 1st Place
Dnx - 86 - 2nd Place
Cat - 69 - 3rd Place
Lwa - 58
Fl - 30
Bwl - 28
Dog - 14

And b4 anyone moans at me for being picky - yes ... I DID SAY THIS WOULD HAPPEN.

[This message has been edited by =DNX= Matrix (edited August 29, 2004).]

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pablito
Member
posted August 29, 2004 10:05 PM            
OMG...

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pablito
Member
posted August 29, 2004 10:49 PM            
I said it first: /forums/archive/ubb/Forum2/HTML/004120.html
quote:
Sharing" a flag doesn't also means that we'll have to be on same team? if so then I'm not even sure that TC would like to do that, so you have to ask him.
Thanks for bringing it up 3 days before the clan battle

no actions were taken... except for your great cooperation, (flag pack). And this is a reply, not moaning.

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yugo2
Member
posted August 29, 2004 11:05 PM         

Can't do that so easy Matrix, sorry. It was agreed, and broadcast for everyone to see on the public forum, that due to technical constraints, there was a possibility that more than one clan would play on the same TEAM. Team, as in group of people that play together and try to kick A on everybody else. That is how we played it, and we played it fairly.

And we did pretty good too.

Now, if you are planning on try to change this agreed approach, with your fuzzy math, or bat-wing or eye-of-toad or whatever you are going to use-

and attempt to parse the scores of individuals that were really playing AS A TEAM to begin with-

then you are going to have to come up with some better algorithm than splitting up the scores and being "tempted to add a penalty."
There are some real statistics to work out here if you choose to work that one out.

If you are planning on continuing this proposal to justify a new score-

BE CAREFUL, YOU MAY BE GETTING IN WAY OVER YOUR HEAD.

May I suggest a ANOVA analysis there chap, to attempt to get at this "penalty added " number of yours. Analysis of Variance. You will have to run this statistical method to analyze the interspecific relationships between these factors that will affect the outcome (get out your pencil and pad Matrix):


1)What team red would have scored

2)How your score and everyone elses would have changed under this scenario for a list of reasons

3)Estimate changes in red team performance due to change in sceneario

4)Control for different numbers of targets, for Red team and all the others (this means that your score may also go down). Since Red Team members were playing at a disadvantage by proportionally having less targets than other players not on Red Team, the penalty would also have ranked higher.

5)You would run the anova three times, once for each game to control for variance

6)The entire ANOVA would all be based on crap data and conclusions. You need to MAKE UP, FABRICATE, CONJECT, HAZARD A GUESS the "potential change in performance" benchmark FOR EACH PLAYER.

-since you don't have a big enough sample size to estimate "potential performance" for each member of every team YOU ARE OUT OF LUCK PAL.


I am a scientist. This is my work. Statistics are logic packageS that you must use if you plan on making RATIONAL JUDGEMENTS BASED ON A CLEAR THREAD OF FACTS, THAT RESULT IN A REASONABLE CONCLUSION.

If you don't use math to solve a math problem (I.E. changing the score), then its not logic you are using to make this proposal.

See, you are trying to make something up that never happened, There are some real problems here, IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.

Of course, you may not know what I mean.
Unfortunately, the burden of proof rests on you-

I gave you enough clues. What I won't give you is tuition for college or masters level stats. May I suggest Matrix, that if you aren't able to conjure up an accurate, defensible, logical rationale to estimate a change in score-

Its not gonna change.

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pablito
Member
posted August 29, 2004 11:16 PM            
As far as I see it.. because now he have great networking in the game and don't want to destroy the fellowship:
Either we keep it like it is or we cancel the whole thing. Vote is needed by all active members of each clan. If no further actions taken. This can be a lesson learned for coordinating an unorganized event.

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666
Member
posted August 29, 2004 11:48 PM            
This clan battle was excellent.

Game 1 had 20 players
Game 2 had 20 players
game 3 had 22 players

We have not seen numbers like this for a whole year since July 2003. The game is picking up. The server handled the load...this is all very excellent.

Sorry folks but I would not start a fight over the current scoring.

I made a call by saying that they could play on the same team because the showup for the clan battle have been in the low teens.

I was shocked at the turn out.

Let me think on how to score this to be fair to all.

But folks it will have to be a compromise.

Back in a minute.

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666
Member
posted August 30, 2004 12:01 AM            
What I would suggest is that the score for the dual clan be recorded as is “Cat-FL” in the standing. It will never happen again. Neither will be able to claim the score for their own. If they were separate, they probably would not have made the top 3. Let them have their glory for now.

And…let go from there.

A few thanks
- thank you Robo for showing up for the DOGS…
- thank you Matrix for the new flags…they will be installed and tested soon
- thank you all for showing up for such a very cool game that is still ahead of its time.

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted August 30, 2004 12:23 AM            
All that bull**** u said yugo im glad its your job and you understand it, its not mine and i saw no fabrication or attempted delusions, so keep it to a simple (team result = clan A score + clan b score) for the lesser mortals around here

If stats were to be believed, every 2.4 children in the uk has a pc - WTF IS .4 of a child !!! LMAO - so much for statistics ...

Seriously, though, if thats ur job, u keep the scores.

It is my opinion that the games were unfairly scored if well attended. I dont believe the matches conformed to the rules as laid out and i didnt make any agreements on scorring method as is required by all party attendees before it can be deemed as acceptable by all participants.

DNX reluctantly withdraws its score from this event for all 3 games.

Sorry.

[This message has been edited by =DNX= Matrix (edited August 30, 2004).]

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666
Member
posted August 30, 2004 12:38 AM            
ah...er...Matrix...I would not go that far. The last time the clan stats were updated was in January 2004...so...who knows when Coax or Ras will up them again.

As I said again, I am happy each game was 20 players or better....and...this one is very important...the server could handle the crowd without lagging out... es muy importante!

So please reconsider...was it not you who said that you were amazed at the current interest of new players?

Lets go from here...if blame should be place it should be on me. I was the one that said that the Cat and FL should play together due to the current flag limitation and current attendance. I did the best that I could with what we had. I am sorry about any confusion that this may create.

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yugo2
Member
posted August 30, 2004 12:44 AM         

Thats OK, Matrix, I can see how the answer could look that simple-

Anyway, I am glad I had a good first battle and our team put in a strong showing. This is sure to keep the upcoming events interesting for a long time.

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CyberCannon
Member
posted August 30, 2004 12:54 AM            
*** Sneaks out the side door.***


Whoops, already been beaten to reply. Dang Dial UP.

[This message has been edited by CyberCannon (edited August 30, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by CyberCannon (edited August 30, 2004).]

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pablito
Member
posted August 30, 2004 12:58 AM            
I said I can't wait for the outcome of this battle...
I agree in many things: If someone should take the blame it should be 666 LOL If you wanna make it up I'll start by changing the name of the beast to something more family oriented. And also, great number of players, the best battle in a long time, yet, here we are complaining about scores, probably the reason why so many people left in the past... IT IS JUST A GAME!! I would take my score if it's just me or if I did wrong but like we said in spanish: Guerra avisada no mata gente or Warned war doesn't kill people. What is done is done, let us implement the flag pack and enjoy versatility!.

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted August 30, 2004 01:02 AM            
Im cool about all this... debate all you wish about score patterns and stats.. DNX has withdrawn its scores for this event. No ill feelings.. we just do is all.

The influx of new players is pretty impressive, i hope they see that dnx plays within the rules, however petty it may appear.

I hope FL and CAT grow more.. we can have some pretty decent battles then... and i second the thanks also.

I was pretty hot when i came off the server, im all calm now - but my decision stands.. beyond that DNX wants no more to do with this particular event... the next one - yes... but this one.. no - I have no further comments, and im quite satisfied with my decision.... Roll on new flags, new port and 15 teams

Also. any chance we can have the clan maps back lol ...

Nite all

[This message has been edited by =DNX= Matrix (edited August 30, 2004).]

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Rex R
Member
posted August 30, 2004 02:43 AM            
I take no credit for HB being there, I will note that black is the default/quickest/easiest team to join. I did not tell anyone the port#. from what I saw; a) hb was shooting anything that moved, b) melon was having connection probs. since the scores are based on end game pics I shant quibble.
BWL since our current leader(s) (guys responsible for jogging teammates memory about clan events) seem to be awol, mayhap we need some one else to do the job.

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Unescapable
Member
posted August 30, 2004 09:03 AM            
pablito you fought valantly i am very proud right now
and why would you do that matrix...i WANT THEM TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!!! we made a deal unknown to the rest of you. tell em pab err ill do it when someone asks
also anotha thing we ....we....we made a pact to work together so our scores should be together!!!!!!!!!!...matrix put em together NOW! and you also know the fl is now flm since a recent merge, I was "hired" for the job.=DNX= Matrix i was playing for CAT and i am openly stating THAT FLM and CAT are in it together... dont like it deal with it!

[This message has been edited by Unescapable (edited August 30, 2004).]

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted August 30, 2004 09:24 AM            
Not upto me bud but your joint score got allowed to stay anyhow, as did ras's less than feeble "i only wanted to see who from bwl was on, i didnt intend to stay, but did anyway and got 21 frags spoiling the game".. those 21 points should be dropped.. i also note that when this happened to us last year - ras was the first to pipe up that it was against the rules

Any pact should be openly announced and accepted to the other participating clans.

quote:
we made a deal unknown to the rest of you

- See that right there should invalidate your whole 3 games scores lol...
You can only claim a joint placing when both clans have the same score and are on diff teams, not when they have a high ranking score and are on the same team.

eg:

lwa - 70 - 1st place
cat - 50 - joint second
fl - 50 - joint second
dnx - 40 - third place

Please note - im not debating this now, just stating fact

Since these scores arent being kept by anyone in a log or list - all this is really pointless... my removing dnx's score is simply a protest vote. 666 or anyone else accepting blame is nonsense and would serve no good purpose at this point - you cant change history In fact NONE of this really matters at all.... except im simply putting on record that where clan wars are held where no rules are followed, we will pull out. I would urge any other fair playing clan to do the same.

If we show up at the next clan war with 15 players on our team, its a clear breach of the rules.. interesting to see if that would be allowed especiallyas we would walk all 3 games and leave you all in monkeydust...

consider, ponder, its a fair point...

See you at the next FAIR Clan War

[This message has been edited by =DNX= Matrix (edited August 30, 2004).]

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pablito
Member
posted August 30, 2004 09:47 AM            
In today's TM episode:
Will pablito respond to unescapable remarks..? TATATAAAAAA!!!!
Will 666 change his name....? TATATAAAAA!!!
Will everyone forget about last clan battle and move on with their lives..?....TATATAAAAAAAAA!!

All this after some brief commercials...

[song]if you want to be fresh, you want to be clean, you better have some: water and soap [/song]

And we are back:
-pablito: Well, I said that we had no choice but to play together since we are sharing the flag....
-unescapable: But you said we'll join! why can't we join!! I'll hate you, I'll kill you..
-pablito: Dude! Let's go slow and see what's best! for the both of us...
-unescapable: What are you afraid of... you suck!!
-pablito: no, you suck...

TATATAAAA!!!!!! please check in tomorrow for the rest of this breathtaking episode in..... [obscure music] THE CLAN BATTLE THAT FRAGGED THEM ALL... [/obscure music ends].......

[This message has been edited by pablito (edited September 09, 2004).]

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted August 30, 2004 11:30 AM            
LMFAO !! - u sound just like Mike-The-TV from REBOOT lol.....

IP:

Irascible
Member
posted August 30, 2004 12:24 PM            
Given our prior discussions Matrix, I knew damn well my points didn't count. My memory is not that bad. Despite your unfounded assertions to the contrary, I was only there to see if BWL was going to show. The evidence is irrefutable. I left after the first game!!! It's a two out of three affair. Once the first one was over and not enough BWL showed for the second and third, it was over. It was also evidenced by the fact that I started to camp. My natural ability to flog all your sorry arses was attracting too much attention. I just wanted to ride it out till the second game so I let my score drop.

Matrix is right FL Knight/Unescapable/Wolf/whateverhell/whogivesacrap. Rules were put in place a long time ago and have evolved with much debate. One long standing principle is that team members and alliances are to be announced up front. It's no different than in other professional sport. Every team knows in advance who they're going to play. That allows them to prepare for it. You saying "deal with it" means less than nothing. The ladders, such as they are, are updated by Coax. If and when they get updated, they'll be updated according to the rules - NOT your wishes.

Be that as it may, if Coax wants to let your idiocy slide by then it's no skin off my nose. It won't matter one wit in the long run. Pablito seems to be interested in having respectable team members. Once he finally sees you spout off on a game server with your cursing or sexual innuendo such as I have witnessed, that'll be the end your precious alliance.

[This message has been edited by Irascible (edited August 30, 2004).]

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pablito
Member
posted August 30, 2004 12:41 PM            
If last battle is going to make all of you sour then delete the scores!!! or go with Matrix's table... I don't care... I'm sick of you trying to bring regulations and such when I announced to all: WE ARE GOING TO SHARE A FLAG!!! ADMIN SAID THERE IS NO OTHER WAY!!! and I kept reminded me which eventually happened, the bad outcomes of this game... call it Pre-battle game, call it "we are sour losers game", call it whatever you want just make a decision and move with it!!!!
TY.

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Irascible
Member
posted August 30, 2004 12:56 PM            
First, you don't understand the dynamic Pab. Matrix, myself and a host of others will turn sour at the drop of a hat. This was merely an excuse. Ask 666. He'll tell ya.

Secondly, a procedural discussion on flag usage does not constitute a proper announcement nor is it grounds for an alliance. Your scores are easily separatable. If you want to announce something, start a thread.

Thirdly, NONE of this matters one wit. It's still a corpse we're arguing over. It may have twitched with the last game, but that don't mean it's alive. :P

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pablito
Member
posted August 30, 2004 01:17 PM            
I don't care the outcome of this battle anymore... You (as in 666, Matrix, Ras) just gave me good reasons to frag you...that's all.

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Unescapable
Member
posted August 30, 2004 01:52 PM            
hmm.....15 dnxers? NOW thats a challenge i want to take

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