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Author Topic:   VOTE: Whether to play the hidden tanks or not to play them.
coaxs
Member
posted February 27, 2004 04:10 PM            
Introduction: Hidden tanks are unfinished tanks created by LDA and are in everyones TM install. They are unfinished because they are missing one crucial line in their code that makes them unplayable. An addon exists which will add this missing line of code, so that you can select them from your "Tank Selection Window". Since the tanks are on every install, just hidden, you can connect to any server and play them as you would any stock tank. All other players will see them. It will have no ill effects on the server since all you are adding is a "name= " into your racetank entity(I would know since I wrote the book on that aspect of TM code, the book being the few things I added to the EEK).

SPECIAL NOTES: THIS REQUIRES "NO" MODIFICATION OF ANY SERVER TO PLAY THEM.

Arguments against the tanks: They are a mod which people can use on LDA, and mods shouldn't be on LDA. Also, leave unfinished work alone, if LDA wanted it in the install they would of added it.

Arguments for the tanks: They expand the list of playable tanks for TM. They have no tactical advantage except for being different.

More Information: The hidden tank addon that you will be voting on can be found at my site, click sig. For more details on what the name parameter does in the racetank entity click my sig and download the EEK. Which explains what every entity does.

Impact of Vote: This vote includes the usage of these tanks on all servers! Since servers don't need to download them to have individuals play on them there is no editing required for server operators. Editing is only required for the users of the tanks to activate them on their TM install.

Voting Details: Poll will close in 5 days Wednesday 1pm. Please make your preference against or for the tanks clearly.

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Tread Marks Ladders

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coaxs
Member
posted February 27, 2004 04:10 PM            
I vote for the tanks.

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Tread Marks Ladders

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KiLlEr
Member
posted February 27, 2004 05:00 PM            
Since there is no way to stop anyone from using these tanks, short of modifying the server (which will cause other problems, such as lagging the server when some one tries to join with a tank not on the server). If someone figures out how to use a hidden tank, then its a bonus for them. If LDA didn't want anyone to use them, they would not be there to begin with. Since they are there on a stock TM install:

The tanks stay.

[This message has been edited by KiLlEr (edited February 27, 2004).]

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Irascible
Member
posted February 27, 2004 05:45 PM            
quote:
They are unfinished because they are missing one crucial line in their code that makes them unplayable.
Uh, no. They are unfinished because of that line AND because their physics are dog slow and their weapon mount positions are wrong. Yes, you technically can play them with just the modification of that one line. But, I doubt very many would without all the other changes to the ent files needed to make them current.

Anyway, the question as it's phrased is pointless. As Killer alluded to, you can't vote on whether or not they should be played. People will do what they want despite a vote. You can vote on whether or not the fully modified versions that you're hosting are to be included on the comm server. Is that what you are really asking? If so, change my vote to yes. Half-Track has grown on me, so I'm being selfish.

Didn't we have this debate already? And didn't we pretty much figure out the wind was blowing in favor of using them on the comm server? And doesn't this thread exist just because Kong is rattling his chains?

I saw Kong's comment about only 7 people or however many it was not constituting a majority. But it DOES constitute a quorum. Whether he likes it or not, one of the reasons so few people can cause changes like this is because there are so few people who participate on the BB. Someone is about to pipe up with their brilliantly useless comment: "That's because you guys are always bickering!" OK. Maybe so. But it's still their decision to not participate. If they're not around to be heard, or if they lurk but say nothing, then they don't count.

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coaxs
Member
posted February 27, 2004 05:48 PM            
I know the vote can be interpreted as sensless , but it still needs to be done.

This vote is to put to rest the issue of using the hidden tanks on any server, not just the community server. It will be up to the server operator to update his/her server accordingly if they want to. Since, LDA will not be updated, usage on that server will be limited to what settings it has on it.

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Tread Marks Ladders

[This message has been edited by coaxs (edited February 27, 2004).]

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Blue n Gold Sue
Member
posted February 27, 2004 06:03 PM            
Personally, I don't care one way or the other.
I guess that is a yes vote, as truly one can't regulate whether this can/will happen or not. What I can recommend, however, is if one chooses to use these tanks on any server, to 1) be sure to instruct newer players on how to activate them and 2) if someone kindly asks you to use 100% stock (no mods nor ents to "adjust" things, that the one using the hidden tanks consider the request while that player is present. <-- that last one is just a thought and meant as a compromise of sorts.

[This message has been edited by Blue n Gold Sue (edited February 28, 2004).]

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THETAXI
Member
posted February 27, 2004 06:06 PM            
I love my elf tank. I vote YES for the tanks.

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Irascible
Member
posted February 27, 2004 06:47 PM            
So Coax, you are looking for non-binding poll based guidance for which you'll kindly ask other players to comply?

Meh. It will settle nothing because it's incapable of affecting anything. Though some people might think the thread IS actually here to decide on some change because that's what we usually use polls for. In that sense, the thread title is a bit misleading.

No worries. You're obviously out to make some point with or to somebody. So knock yourself out. :^)

[This message has been edited by Irascible (edited February 27, 2004).]

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coaxs
Member
posted February 27, 2004 06:54 PM            
ras: The argument is irrelevant in that it is unregulatable, this has been made clear by me numerous times. But, cursing is also unregulatable but seems to be regulated.

It is not misleading a no vote would mean I would take my tanks off my server and make whatever other changes deemed required.

The nature of the beast that is this forum requires it to be done. Claims were made that this was an undemocratic move, so lets make it democratic. Did you vote yet ras, and what was it?

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Tread Marks Ladders

[This message has been edited by coaxs (edited February 27, 2004).]

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Irascible
Member
posted February 27, 2004 07:02 PM            
I vote nothing because you asked nothing! LOL! Should players play a tank? They can do what they want and you can't stop them. Killer alluded to it earlier.

And a vote on what you can or can't host on your site is equally as silly. No one can tell you one friggin thing. You must decide that.

So distilled down, as you FINALLY hinted at with the language analogy, you're looking for a vote to create pressure on server ops - just like pressure is exerted on players to keep the language clean. Well... OK. LOL. Pressure it is.

[This message has been edited by Irascible (edited February 27, 2004).]

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coaxs
Member
posted February 27, 2004 07:02 PM            
The vote is as much to do with ettiquette as anything else. Whether it is deemed okay to use a tank or not.

I would never make a vote that would take power away from the server operators. It is their choice on what files to run. And to do so is silly, but it looks like you already added that to your post now.

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Tread Marks Ladders

[This message has been edited by coaxs (edited February 27, 2004).]

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coaxs
Member
posted February 27, 2004 07:08 PM            
Ras: The vote is to play the hidden tanks or not to play them. Did you read the title? It is unregulatable as others pointed out, but it can be effectively curved if I take the tanks off my server.

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Tread Marks Ladders

[This message has been edited by coaxs (edited February 27, 2004).]

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Irascible
Member
posted February 27, 2004 07:20 PM            
Oh yeah. I read the title. That's why I asked all the questions. I couldn't believe what I was reading. And you even admit it. It's a vote on etiquette! lol... sorry man... seriously, I'm laughing as I'm typing this. I suppose the humor is lost on you because you've apparently taken Kong's silly arse flames to heart. Well, OK.

Anyway, ahem. To the question of (snicker) etiquette. YES, I think it would be "polite" (snort) to not hassle others that choose to play hidden tanks. I also think it would it would do Ms Manners proud (heehee) if players would say hello when they log on. And finally, it would REALLY be polite if (chuckle) players would wash their d@mned hands after they use the restroom and before they sit at the keyboard! Where do you guys think all these computer viruses come from?! LOL!

Incidentally, if you take them down someone will just put them back up. They probably have already. If not, then I'll do it. :^)

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Bonzo Dog
Member
posted February 27, 2004 07:40 PM            
LDA has seen no changes since the year dot and should remain that way, the same as its always been. If you change it, it will be the end of an era. Its a TM institution. If we need change someone can put up another server and get the same results as your looking for.

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coaxs
Member
posted February 27, 2004 07:41 PM            
BONZO DOG: Did you read my post? Did you answer the question?

Ras: Are you for or against?

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Tread Marks Ladders

[This message has been edited by coaxs (edited February 27, 2004).]

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Irascible
Member
posted February 27, 2004 07:48 PM            
LOLOL! Yes! The answer is yes! I am for etiquette! Wait... I am for being polite to those who choose to use tank mods when they play. I am also for those who use detailed textures in their graphics settings AND for those that don't! I am also for those that wipe their mouth corners daintily with frilly tissue AND for those that do a manly full face swipe with a kitchen towel. Teehee.

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KiLlEr
Member
posted February 27, 2004 08:01 PM            
this is gooney. LOL

And if everyone voted that no hidden tank are allowed how exactly are you going to enforce it?

The only way that you can boot someone off the machine is (*gasp*) use LogScan on the LDA stock server and enable the player boot vote system. The latter Coax was absolutly against it, and I agreed being it was a community server. And forget about LogSCan being used on LDA stock, LDA specifically asked not to inclued it.

But then again, if it were LogScanned then Kong would no longer play on it, and therefore wouldn't complain about the hidden tanks. LOL

This is like running full speed on a treadmill. We're getting no where reeel fast. LOL

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coaxs
Member
posted February 27, 2004 08:29 PM            
Captain, the treadmil can't take much more of this!

There are ways to enforce it, removing files from servers would be one way.

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Tread Marks Ladders

[This message has been edited by coaxs (edited February 27, 2004).]

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Sailor
Administrator
posted February 27, 2004 09:19 PM            
I vote - ???????????????????????????????????????????????????? Something - not sure what - Oh well that is my thought on it - I like the Dwarf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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May you always have a following Sea a cool breeze at your back and the comfort of those you hold nearest to your heart.
Sailor's Home Port


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KONG
Member
posted February 27, 2004 09:26 PM            
quote:
I suppose the humor is lost on you because you've apparently taken Kong's silly arse flames to heart.

Shhhhh!

quote:
But then again, if it were LogScanned then Kong would no longer play on it, and therefore wouldn't complain about the hidden tanks. LOL

Ha ha, yeah real funny. Though I am sure there are quite a few people who wouldn't mind it.

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coaxs
Member
posted February 27, 2004 09:32 PM            
Kong: And you would be against the addons right?

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KiLlEr
Member
posted February 27, 2004 09:39 PM            
Removing them will make it a modified server. Since it is a public server, and the entire public who is playing now, and others who will play in the future have a reasonable expectation that the server will support everything that is on their disk.
In order to allow us to have the use of a higher bandwidth server to mod (or not to mod) to our hearts content LDA gave us the community server,under the stipulation that the stock server is to remain *as* *is*.

I donot see how we have the authority at this point to dictate to LDA what files should or should not be on that server.

To make sure everyone understands:

The stock server is NOT under the community server admins control, nor do we have any form of access to it except through the intervention of LDA.

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coaxs
Member
posted February 27, 2004 09:42 PM            
Killer, there is access to it. But not for the last several months, but I will keep my mouth shut about it.

I've personally had to have a server admin remove a mod from stock LDA.

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VorDesigns
Member
posted February 27, 2004 10:00 PM            
Since disdain would be in appropriate; abstain.

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted February 27, 2004 10:51 PM            
quote:
I vote nothing because you asked nothing!

- WOOT - musta missed that one in his initial post, it was rather descriptive too

I vote YES for the tanks.

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