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Author Topic:   Give me a "Scheduled Events and Downloads" forum or give me... death? No! A loss!
Irascible
Member
posted February 20, 2004 05:08 PM            
That's right. I like 666's idea so much that I've raised the stakes of the Patrick Henry parody by replacing "death" with something even worse: a loss to DNX this weekend.

And, I liked it so much that I wanted to be the one to start the thread or a thread. Here's part of what 666 said in the other thread:

quote:
This has been worrying me also. I was going to do a post this weekend that will have the thread title, "Scheduled Events and Downloads". Inside the 1st post I was going to list all the events and post links for the downloads. I will pursue with LDA to get a forum for just info and links for all the servers needs, rankings, mod locations, etc.

One of the hardest parts of playing on a modded server is trying to find the mods. Hopefully I will be successful. Let you know how it comes out.


Here's my reply:
quote:
A forum category is appropriate in the sense that it would make it incredibly easy to always access such information. Threads started here always end up getting buried. In fact, I love the idea 666! (Bet you never thought I'd say that.)

You could allow a thread for each active server or "often active server" (like anarchy) and one for each scheduled event. The admins could delete anyone else's attempts at spam. I mean think about it, one click and there'd be less than a 20 threads always on top that would always make accessing currently needed mods real easy.

You could genericly label a thread "clan war schedule and downloads", another "racing schedule and downloads" another "robos server downloads" and so on. When new servers go up, the server host could start a new thread. Server hosts could message an admin when to pull the thread and/or the admin could message the host about a thread that no longer appears to have a related server and/or the server host could make a note in the thread title like "exp 2/28" to indicate when to pull the thread.


Feel free to start your own thread and ignore this one if you like 666. I just wanted to bring this to the top now. It just makes too much d@mn sense.

I should add:
Someone might suggest that each website should get its own thread. Perhaps a single thread for all websites to be listed would be good, but anything more would make it too big and too hard to find the information for which the forum is beig proposed. The most obvious threads to be allowed would be for current events and current servers. That keeps the tread count down to a manageable level and keeps them from getting buried.

[This message has been edited by Irascible (edited February 20, 2004).]

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Irascible
Member
posted February 20, 2004 05:16 PM            
If the forum becomes a reality, standardized formats would be highly logical. Server threads could perhaps all start with the word "server:" followed by the server name. An event could start with "event:" and the event name. Or whatever. I'm just throwing out ideas.

People like to scan, not read. That would make it easy to scan and find what you need out of the 10 to 20 threads (or whatever) that might be there. If we allow server hosts leeway in that, they may get silly with the advertising. A bunch of threads labeled with inane cliches like "this server will rock your world" and "be there or be square" would make it much harder to find useful information.

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Dudymas
Member
posted February 20, 2004 05:44 PM            
Yeah, really cool idea here. Make it a requirement to specify an exp date, and additionally (if necessary) signup date. Challenges could be special events that have no expiration date, but rather a challenge accepted date which would nullify the challenge. Since some posts would not be particularly from one user, you could be allowed to select from a list of clans/groups/guilds/etc. that you are registered to so the post will show that the post reflects any groups that apply (this is especially cool because if modified correctly, you could have anyone who is registered to the group modify the topic's text/exp date/etc.). The most important part would be organizing. I think mods should still go in the mod forum, but here's another cool idea if, for instance, a mod was really new, original, and necessary for a particular server/event. In that case, I elect that one could go to the new events forum, and under creation of the post, you could select announcement mode, and it would allow you to select which forums the event is listed on. That way, if someone is browsing general forum, and decides to post to an event, people in the modifications forum can see it as well as people in the events. That way if someone thinks its pressing enough, they can make everyone look at it and posts keep it together. I could go on, but I'd need more sugar (No, you hopeless romantics.... I don't mean I need a kiss or a hug.... and no, you perves, it doesn't mean I need more physical affections... and no, you nuts, it doesn't mean I need sugar to power my computer... and no *THWOCK*

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coaxs
Member
posted February 20, 2004 05:51 PM            
Easy for those that don't have another forum to keep an eye on and to make sure the threads are up to date. :P

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Tread Marks Ladders

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Sailor
Administrator
posted February 20, 2004 06:34 PM            
Not so easy in this UBB - remember that there is no sticky option for a thread and that they all expire after 30 days I believe and go to archive or at least off the active listing for the forum. Just a reminder.

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Irascible
Member
posted February 20, 2004 06:42 PM            
I assume editing the original post is not enough to keep it fresh?

If so, that's actually a good thing. It would forcibly remove irrelevant threads if not already removed by request. Server ops and schedule makers would have to bump their threads or start new ones after the old ones disappear.

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synack
Member
posted February 20, 2004 07:35 PM         
lol ... Dudy, I've missed your posts. Happy you've returned, am I.

[suddenly thinking about Mining again ]

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted February 20, 2004 09:18 PM            
"Not so easy in this UBB"

- But really REALLY easy at DMF should more than 2% of you decide to use it once in a while

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KiLlEr
Member
posted February 20, 2004 09:44 PM            
or use the descriptions on the server status page to add links to.

I don't buy the argument that it should only be here in the forums. Its always messy, threads get buried, threads go off on tangents, etc, etc, etc.

All you need is to designate a single place for everyone to go to grab the files. Then just have one topic in the forum to tell noobs where to go. No need for weekly thread after weekly thread of dl the files from here for this weeks event. All it takes is for one person to post to an old "get this file from over here" thread to mess everyone up. Yes, you can go think up some scheme of how to title the thread but why bother when you can do the same thing much easier with no confusion just by putting a link to the file in the description of the server on the server status page.

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Irascible
Member
posted February 20, 2004 10:10 PM            
"I don't buy the argument that it should only be here in the forums."
I may need to read the thread again, but who used the word "only"? Players can do what they like. And there in lies the problem: players come and go links don't get maintained. Central repositories have been tried before with little success. THIS forum has always gotten the widest audience and always has active admins.

"Its always messy, threads get buried, threads go off on tangents"
An entire forum category limited to around a dozen threads couldn't get buried. And let the tangents go where they may. The important information in the type of thread in question would be in the opening post.

"why bother when you can do the same thing much easier with no confusion just by putting a link to the file in the description of the server on the server status page"
Not all servers are on the server status page.

"All it takes is for one person to post to an old "get this file from over here" thread to mess everyone up."
A new forum category wouldn't have any old threads to post to. And if someone posted bogus stuff, it wouldn't be long before an admin corrected or deleted.

YES, it can be done much more elegantly elsewhere. But no other place has the universal appeal or longevity. Like it or not, IF a newb checks out the TM web this is the first place most of them hit. It takes a while for a lot of them to graduate to other sites, IF they graduate.

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Irascible
Member
posted February 21, 2004 12:07 AM            
AND, what other place can ANYONE post their server or event info? A website by nature requires admin privelages. You've created a place for that Killer with the server status page, but not everyone is running LogScan.

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted February 21, 2004 05:36 AM            
Err actually u can do that at DMF too lol ... U dont get around enough ras, youll be asking about passworded boards, flash, polls, membermaps, dedicated ftp, download area, smile sets, event calendar and html inserts next (OOPS WE DO THAT TOO LOL) - jeez, anything we dont do ???? Your Dishes Maybe lol .... Its free and it there, up to you if you use it or not.

No good moaning about it, nobody is going to upgrade this board, so if u want the advanced stuff, you gotta go "elsewhere" in the meantime ill just sit back and watch you try to work around the limitations

[This message has been edited by =DNX= Matrix (edited February 21, 2004).]

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Karldar
Member
posted February 21, 2004 09:02 AM            
Hmm...very interestink!

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Irascible
Member
posted February 21, 2004 06:08 PM            
Exactly right Matey. I don't get around. Now apply that fact to many more and you see my point. Your tongue-in-cheek (possibly real) estimate of a 2 percent rate of patronage to DMF also illustrates my point. The limitations of this BB are easily dealt with. As you well know, players' unwillingness to get involved and surf around is not.

I'm just being pragmatic about it. Boomstick is awesome. DMF is wonderful. Coax.net is great. But so what? This site still remains the hub of what activity is left. If a player site establishes itself as the true alternate authority, fine. But no site has managed to do that.

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted February 21, 2004 09:05 PM            
Have to admit m8 u hit the nail on the head there....

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coaxs
Member
posted February 21, 2004 10:46 PM            
coaxs.net geesh

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Tread Marks Ladders

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Irascible
Member
posted February 21, 2004 10:49 PM            
It's big of you to say so Matrix. :^)

Incidentally: Just so Killer and Coax know, there was zero sarcasm in my compliments regarding the sites listed.

Relax Coax. I gave you an excuse to plug the site. :P

[This message has been edited by Irascible (edited February 21, 2004).]

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted February 21, 2004 11:49 PM            
Cant avoid fact Ras, pointless trying to hide from it - why do u think i lost the hope of releasing a decnt mod, itll only go the way of the dodo and ppl will return once more to stock. Mods are a novelty here, no more, not seriously considered like say Desert Combat for BF1942 or Enemy Territory for RTCW.

Ppls unwillingness to get involved or provide decent feedback is what disheartens modders and ultimately makes em think their efforts are fruitless in the long term. Same with sites - doesnt matter how good a site is, if ppl dont have enough interest to get involved, then its a fruitless effort, thats why i stopped updating DMF... eventually ill decomission it; and to be honest, that lack of interest is killing TM, only the stallwarts are keeping it alive.... and kudos to em, personally i lost the love for serious modding, i just do the occasional map now when inspiration takes me, and mainly for my own amusement. Id say a good 70% of my maps have never seen the light of day.


[This message has been edited by =DNX= Matrix (edited February 21, 2004).]

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666
Member
posted February 22, 2004 12:48 AM            
Below was the last email that I was sending to Sailor to figure out allthe details before I went to LDA for asking for the forum.

There would only be threads where you would post the various links for all the mods. The start of a thread would be one of the listings of server pack, maps, tanks, weapons, movies, etc. with at description of what it is about.

For example: Server Pack - Race Ladder, Every Thursday at 8 PM Pacific time
Another example: Schedule of the Month's Events

The 1st post would still have all the links and it would be bumped by someone every thirty days. No extraneous thread, this forum would be for information only. An example of the structure of the TM forum is listed below. Note that the first 2 forums already exist. The strategy forum is gone. Forums that are not active and show little hope of activity need to be combined with an active forum or archived.


2. Tread Marks
….General Discussion – Tread Marks (forum header)
….Modifications Discussion – Tread Marks (forum header)
….Community Information, Downloads, and Links (forum header)
………Server Packs (thread header)
………Maps (thread header)
………Tanks (thread header)
………Weapons (thread header)
………Movies (thread header)
………Clan (thread header)
………Rankings (thread header)
………Schedule (thread header)


I could live with the 30 day renewal of all the post. It is very important that LDA be the central location for finding all the info regarding TM related material. It would make it easier for any person running a modded server for the players to get the info or any info that is listed in other locations. I do not think that it would cost them anything. It is crucial that there is no cost to LDA or it will not happen.

[This message has been edited by 666 (edited February 22, 2004).]

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666
Member
posted February 22, 2004 02:10 AM            
thx Ras for pushing for the Community forum.

The standard for labeling the different threads is still up for grabs. What I wrote were my thoughts to Sailor. Ras is correct, you would need to limit the number of threads.

One of the reasons I wanted the forum was that LDA needs to be the central location for all the info. Yes, I know any other forums, DNX, GA or others could have the actually download and really cool looking features but it needs to be at LDA to be legitimate.

Another problem that I was having is info line that shows up for the server listing is too small. There will be three different packs for the race server to download. I need a quick and permanent solution for a player to get the mods that any TM’er could find. Therefore I could list at the info line to go to the community forum for downloads. All the details that I would need would be there for all to read.

I think that the only thing that needs to happen now is for LDA go give the go ahead and the server admins can do the rest.

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KiLlEr
Member
posted February 22, 2004 12:39 PM            
hehe, I was too busy in the past couple of days and let my responses slip.

I was only posting my opinions and what I've experienced with running events solely from a forum. It gets messy and confused. Which is why I built the event system, large server listing page, and descriptions with clickable links.

Yes not all the servers are listed on logscan, but the ones that are listed are the ones that have recurring events.

I never did say one shouldn't post about events, all I ment was that the forums shouldn't be the one and only method used.
To combat the mess and confusion, put the links and descriptions in the servers descriptions on logscan, put the event in the event system, put notcies on this forum, and at DMF. Thats what I've done with events in the past and it has working out much better than just listing them here. That way you got all your bases covered. (and remember: All you bases are belong to us!)

[This message has been edited by KiLlEr (edited February 22, 2004).]

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Dudymas
Member
posted February 22, 2004 01:36 PM            
hmmmm, to reply to the modding point made earlier, I find it hard to get discouraged if I just focus on doing something for the fun of it, and if someone wants to help, then so be it. I must admit that both modders and community are to blame... but only because people don't have a lot of time in our age group... people with time are usually too old, too young, me, or lucky. All of 'em (with that obvious exception) don't act too interested in the first place. I really believe we all love the mods and want to help, but find that we'd need to die playing TM and go to the halls of Valhalla for TM to have enough time. I think if we ever want to improve modding, just get organized and time it out, but avoid making it like business... just mod in the fun-time you set up, and if no one gives feedback, make it for yourself and give out your e-mail all over the place so when someone is interested (Killer can testify to that and the Team CTF... although I contacted him by TM) they do get yah, yell at this and that and ask for more stuff. I've taken in all sorts of mods and modded them up... but since no one asks for my mods, I only give out those I think would be fun. I still have the mining mod,shove mod, hell mod (yes, that extra crunchy n krispy snap-crackle-n-pop nuke mod done in memory of Random Chaos's hell server...), liero mod, and other unfinished things that I didn't need to finish because I found it good enough for me. We prolly all have mods we've done...minor tweaks to full redoings, but it's a matter of time vs. interest. Good lord, that was still too serious... must... play.... something..... goofy.....

But before I leave, thanks for the thanks for the thanks I've returned to TM, synack (the fact that you enjoy my posts). I can give you mining stuff if you like... really, I specifically think you'd like a community mod server with the mining kit put into it (OOOOOH, ALL hail the holy mining kit... and you don't have to count to three to use it, and five isn't 'right out'). Has anyone made a weapon/tank/entity extractor for TM yet? Something so you can say," I like these tanks,and these weapons, from these mods... let's combine them with this mod into this mod in a temporary addons folder and launch it as a server and save the preset for the config." I think if we could just add EVERYTHING to on huge hulkin Addon folder and have the app just save a list of things, and custom make the stuff, it'd save hard drive space, folder renaming woes, and allow me to simply send a small text file to synack with what weapons I recommend, and the websites where to get them, then the app could run, download what he doesn't have, ask if he wants it permanently saved or temp, and start up a game. Just think of it... such beauty *falls backwards looking up a brilliant light*
*Thud*

Oh, and the reason why this applies is because we could post xml or text files onto the community board, and one could simply save the file in whatever way and load it... although the files WOULD get huge, so they should ref other stock ref files so that only the main changes are needed.

My solution for a community forum: Hack Karldar's e-mail and we use that for postings, we can send each other files, and thanks to karldar we'll get free complimentary pictures of pretty women and paypal gifts. Waddaya say.... everyone would win. I'm sure if there's any spam, it's only Karldars fault, and we could ban him.

[This message has been edited by Dudymas (edited February 22, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by Dudymas (edited February 22, 2004).]

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Dudymas
Member
posted February 24, 2004 07:33 PM            
I guess this was too loony? Well, too bad, I'm starting to make it with python, and you'll have to download wxpython and co to use it too, MWAHAHAHAH! I B4|<3rZ c|4 /3/234b.N0vV 1 337z 17!i!i

[This message has been edited by Dudymas (edited February 24, 2004).]

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Paranor
Member
posted February 24, 2004 11:54 PM            
I'm working with a CMS that has specific areas locked down based on user ID.

So for example, the calendar area anyone can submit something but only certain person(s) can approve. Same with web links. Photo Gallery. Downloads. The discussion forum is phpbb which is extremely popular. It supports HTML tags, uses my-sql as the back-end database. And since it's a CMS web page development is there also. Surveys.

I can go on and on. One main point is you don't need to know HTML to add/edit/delete content. That's why I'm implementing it for my church and we have 7000 members so it's easily beefy enough.

And it's free (open source).

I know DMF is pretty beefy but it's not really a "web site" is it?

Yes LDA may not want to upgrade but what about offering taking over their Treadmarks area? A simple HTML re-direct would work. www.karllois.com is hardly used so I have bandwidth and disk space (web provider). LDA can have admin access (everything is administrated via GUI). If they don't like something just undo the HTML re-direct.

That's my two cents.

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KONG
Member
posted February 25, 2004 12:10 AM            
My site as well, most of the same features as yours but much easier to use and install

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