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Author Topic:   the future of tread marks?
sodom_
New Member
posted December 09, 2003 12:09 AM            
i bought this game i think 2 or 3 years ago and i still play it everynow and then.

today i saw some screenshots of an upcoming game for the xbox called metal shell. http://www.metal-shell.com/

at first i thought it was tread marks they are so similar. do the two games have any relation?

is there plans for a remake or sequel to tread marks?

any response is welcome, thanks

IP:

BamZipPow
Member
posted December 09, 2003 01:24 AM            
Hmm...Tantulus sounds familiar. Didn't they work on TM2 fer the Playstation 2?

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted December 09, 2003 05:45 AM            
Indeed they did Bam, i was in touch with their CEO "Tom Crago" on several occasions re: their TM2 project.

The future of TM is uncerain, tentative certainly; the community is whats keeping it alive. LDA didnt exactly get rich from it and the takeup was "light" to say the least - if it had shifted numbers like Quake - the future would be bright, but after using several distribution firms and advertising campaigns - fiscal return is little or none.

From a business sense, id be dropping it like a stone, from the community aspect, i suspect LDA feels the responsibility to support us as we do them; but updates and new versions ? Doubtful.

There is the possibility of an expansion pack containing new ent commands and use of pillbox's - a new patch is doubtful and tm2 as a workable project has all but dissapeared. Keep an eye out for an as yet un-named RPG from LDA using the TM engine - if that takes off, things may change, right now, the temprature of interest in tm is less than luke warm im sorry to say.

As fer Tantalus copying TM - wouldnt surprise me - theyre australian - with my experience of australians, it's what i would have expected from them.

IP:

A2597
Member
posted December 09, 2003 10:22 AM            
hmm...you know, there ARE international copywrite laws...

LDA+Tantaulus = Get Rich Quick LDA!

IP:

A2597
Member
posted December 09, 2003 10:32 AM            
Has LDA been told about this yet? It looks like Tantaulus stole the entire code and just improved it a little! (Shadows, moving treads...both of which were in TM2)

gah...


oh, and last I talked to Jim, work on porting TM to the DX engion was in place, along with some additional ent commands as stated.
------------------
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Flying Tanks and Cookie Dough?
Oh, wait, no. If tanks were ment to fly they would have been born with little bags of salted peanuts.


[This message has been edited by A2597 (edited December 09, 2003).]

IP:

=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted December 09, 2003 12:34 PM            
I have written to Tantalus CEO, ill let you know what i get as a reply when it arrives.

IP:

LDA
Administrator
posted December 09, 2003 05:26 PM            
Interesting that you instantly spotted the Tread Marks within Metal Shell....although I don't see a publisher yet.

Yes, Tantalus had the source code to Tread Marks for over a year and then suddenly walked away... and then Metal Shell magically showed up a couple of months later... deformable terrain etc.

International copyright and Intelectual Property laws have big teeth... etc., etc.

Jim

IP:

=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted December 09, 2003 06:27 PM            
Ok Jim, Guys - heres what i got:

>Dear Mr Crago,
>
>It's been a while since our last communication re: your now abandoned
>Treadmarks project, I see Tantalus is working on a new console based tank
>game "Metal Shell", it looks very nice, i was wondering if you would mind me
>asking some questions about it.
>
>Best Regards,
>Andrew Wiffen
>
>DNX-Designs Uk
>Deathmatch Federation Clan & Games Support
>www.dnxworld.filetap.com
>Tel: REDACTED
>Fax: REDACTED

His Reply:

Hi Andrew; the game is 'Metal Shell.' Probably a little early to say too
much about it at this stage... We do have some screens and movies at www.metal-shell.com

We hope to be able to make another announcement about it early next year.

Cheers,
Tom

---

and there you have it, basic maths....

(Brick Wall + Banging Head) + "May as well be" = DUH!

IP:

synack
Member
posted December 09, 2003 06:47 PM         
Clean their clocks, Jim.

(or is that just a US phrase? I meant, take 'em for all they're worth.)

What a blatant rip off.

IP:

BamZipPow
Member
posted December 09, 2003 07:28 PM            
It's not hard to spot TM anywhere we go. As far as I know...it's the only game that has true deformable terrain. That's why I like it so much.

Nothing like blowing up some deep holes. Especially in developers that might have "borrowed" code...

IP:

sodom_
New Member
posted December 09, 2003 07:56 PM            
i saw it over on gamestop and it just struck me. i didnt want to accuse anyone of anything being my first post and all, but this just enraged me.

i hope you guys sue them into the dirt.

IP:

=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted December 09, 2003 08:14 PM            
I decided to engage in follow up discourse, heres what i got:

Dear Mr Crago,

I checked out the site, the
game looks nice - i cant help but draw lots of comparrisons to Treadmarks
though.. the ground deformation, 3d trees, fire fx, sky's etc and this is
the basis for my prepared questions. There is in fact a LOT of similarities
to Treadmarks, and since you have now put movies and wallpapers into the
public domain, I as a community leader am being asked said questions I would
intend to pass to your good self.

Many ppl in the Treadmarks community are screaming COPYRIGHT, my intention
is to lay these comments to rest; it would come across better if I didnt
have to do a write up without Tantalus's input.

Many thanks,
Andrew.


------
His Reply:

Hi Andrew,

There is nothing whatsoever of 'Tread Marks' in 'Metal Shell.' I think you should be very careful about implying that there is. Aside from what's on the website, we're not discussing Metal Shell in the media until the new year, when we hope to make an announcement.

Regards,
Tom

------
My Reply:

Dear Tom,

I would not imply such Tom, however, you must confess, is isn't looking like a great picture when you held LDA's Treadmarks source code, then pull out from the project, 2 months later you have a product which looks and feels like treadmarks, you have to admit there is more than a passing similarity.

Im sorry you felt like you could not provide sufficient input for the community, i shall write a piece, as news, and allow ppl to draw whatever conslusions they see fit from comparrison images and video. I look forward to checking out the demo of Metal Shell very much.

Best regards
Andrew.

IP:

A2597
Member
posted December 09, 2003 08:36 PM            
Go fry 'em LDA!

Jerks.

------------------
### Hi, I'm a sig virus. Please add me to the end of your signature so I can take over the world. ### - Caught from excaliber @ B5mg.com

Flying Tanks and Cookie Dough?
Oh, wait, no. If tanks were ment to fly they would have been born with little bags of salted peanuts.


IP:

=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted December 09, 2003 09:25 PM            
Join the debate - Poll is active.

VOTE HERE

IP:

VorDesigns
Member
posted December 09, 2003 10:17 PM            
Hi,

I looked, I saw, I thought of Windows vs. Mac OS.

Only This time Apple got there first.

All the way up with a red hot poker.

Jim if you are interested in an International Contract Law referral, please lt me know.

------------------
Echoes from the Void
=
You can kill them, but you cannot make them surrender
-
http://www.vordesigns.com


IP:

Irascible
Member
posted December 10, 2003 02:49 AM            
"There is nothing whatsoever of 'Tread Marks' in 'Metal Shell.' I think you should be very careful about implying that there is."

People tend to get most defensive when you've hit them with uncomfortable truth. If they did rip off TM, I hope he gets a lot more uncomfortable.

IP:

Irascible
Member
posted December 10, 2003 03:00 AM            
Even if you don't care to vote, hit Matrix's link!

He's got some EXCELLENT side by side pictures of the two games there.

IP:

wolfman
Member
posted December 10, 2003 06:36 AM            
These people have the gaul to say it has no relation to TM - they even use some of the same f'n flags on the tans. As they say in the states give em a bohica. "Thanks for the source code - here it is back. Then a few months later - oh here is a "totally" new tank game that we are putting out that has nothing to do with TM." I have never seen another tank game with deformable terrain etc. They even use some of the same flags from TM. Stick it to em LDA with a size 12 boot side ways and if you need some help I will happily toss in some $ for the legal fight. What a bunch of low life scum bags.

IP:

=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted December 10, 2003 07:39 AM            
Ras, you should join up and debate in the religious and political forums, i have the feeling you would love it in there, its more addictive than it sounds.

Also, thx for the accreditation and wolf, thx for stopping by and posting - dont be a stranger

IP:

MexIndian
Member
posted December 10, 2003 09:35 AM            
OK, even I have to come back for this one. i think the obvious truth is that it looks and feels very similar. scumbags.

HOWEVER:
LDA, I think you should look very closely at the source-code copyright laws. Cause the source is what they used.... not the game itself (where the copyright lies). I think Intelectual property might be a better gamble....I hope the legal mumbojumbo works.

Alternatively, you could pay me to take them out back with a 2X4 and give them "what for".

Or make Ras lose 10 times in a row and then have him post things on their forum... but that might violate the Geneva Convention as "cruel and unusual punishment".

But LDA if you wanna go after em, you know you've got a community after you.

IP:

A2597
Member
posted December 10, 2003 09:59 AM            
Well, I know alot of people from AU at firstones, so posted this there.

one responce:

quote:

Posted by SHadowboxer
IP is perhaps the single most difficult thing to protect. Trademarks, regd designs, patents... all useless without a large cage full of rabid lawyers...

and unfortunately lawyers dont like working for doggy kibble...

my only suggestion is to talk to another games company based here in AU...
www.torusgames.com

if its just a conversion job... talk to them and they may be interested... if they go ahead.. they can challenge Tanalus in the Aussie courts or atleast threaten them which can sometimes be enough.

I have friends in Torus, but I cant 'lever' directly.. someone 'legit' needs to make an approach first...


------------------
### Hi, I'm a sig virus. Please add me to the end of your signature so I can take over the world. ### - Caught from excaliber @ B5mg.com

Flying Tanks and Cookie Dough?
Oh, wait, no. If tanks were ment to fly they would have been born with little bags of salted peanuts.


IP:

LDA
Administrator
posted December 10, 2003 01:08 PM            
Post that link of Matrix's to those side by shide comparison shots...

Jim

IP:

A2597
Member
posted December 10, 2003 02:15 PM            
Already did.
topic is at http://forums.firstones.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5538

so what do you think can be done? Anything we as the community can to do help? (Aside from boycotting Tantaulus software proggies? )

------------------
### Hi, I'm a sig virus. Please add me to the end of your signature so I can take over the world. ### - Caught from excaliber @ B5mg.com

Flying Tanks and Cookie Dough?
Oh, wait, no. If tanks were ment to fly they would have been born with little bags of salted peanuts.


IP:

sodom_
New Member
posted December 10, 2003 02:34 PM            

IP:

=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted December 10, 2003 03:00 PM            
Metal Shaft - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - Nice lol ...

Jim, heres the images:

IP:

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