This topic is 2 pages long:   1  2  |
Author Topic:   Hasty clan augmentation and player name obfuscation? Hmmm...
Irascible
Member
posted November 24, 2003 08:14 PM            
Point 1)
Black Knight seems like a good enough kid. I've actually played against him for several hours in the last week. He took a liking to the 85 weapons server. He seemed to take a liking to me. He thinks I'm "fun". Imagine that. He even asked to join BWL. I told him it was too soon. From what he told me he had not been playing even a week. A day later he was DNX.

The result?
Not on purpose of course, but he royally screwed up the second game. As a result, Melon got booted from the server in the second game. That is the only reason why DNX took the second game. Melon had roughly 18 frags before he got booted. I play online with Melon more than anyone else. When lag gets real bad, he loses his connection. The EXACT same thing happened previously. Scroll down a bit and you'll see. The private port number was supposed to solve that problem. Given proper time to know him and then recruit him, Knight would have understood the game better and would have had the proper maps installed.

Point 2)
The cloned names were quite humorous. I thoroughly believed Goku when he said that it was an attempt at a mind game. The funny part is that if anything, it relaxes people and makes them play better. I've told this story before: When Supe use to womp on me, I would get tense anytime I came up against him. The tenser I got, the worse I played. The reaction is a simple and undeniable fact of psychology. In Goku's case, I'm sure he puts some people on edge. Even I perk up when I see him... that is, right before I frag him. But yesterday? It was a bunch of clones with zero meaning attached to them. I could have been fragging AI's for all I knew. Thanks for the help guys.

As much fun as it is to poke fun at the tactic, that's not my problem with it. One DNXer in particular is adamant about names of playing clan members being posted somewhere prior to a game. The obvious reason is to avoid "pinch hitters". Non-clan members playing for a clan for the day would turn the event into a farce. Yet using anonymous names in such a fashion allows for exactly that. There's no accountability when there's no names.

Again, I am not saying that pinch hitters were playing yesterday. I have no doubt that DNX as a whole believed it would be a useful tactic - creative thinking, if you will. So I do believe that was their motivation. But to open the door to this kind of activity WILL eventually lead to someone causing mischief. I'm asking that this loophole in clan war rules be closed by simple proclamation or by majority vote.

[This message has been edited by Irascible (edited November 25, 2003).]

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Blue n Gold Sue
Member
posted November 24, 2003 08:25 PM            
As far as I know, when DNX recruits a new member, that person is NOT afforded total access to their private forums until a trial period has passed. Until that trial period HAS passed the player is supposed to play with the following tag -DNX-Player [NR] with the NR meaning new recruit. Black Knight IS a new recruit and I don't think he wore the proper insignia (if you will). That said, I am NOT DNX and I know this from David's prior association with that clan. It is also my understanding that Black Knight DID get information from another clan member about what was needed for the game, and how the game should proceed. I can't seek any further to that, as I wasn't there, nor do I know. I DO know that the off and on with players on the server caused SERIOUS lag issues for me and the other players on this line. I would shoot my weapon, not have anything happen for what seemed to be an eternity (guessing at least 5 seconds, maybe more in the extreme cases), and find myself blown to bits the next second. I also know CyberCannon suffered terribly for this, as, obviously did MelonCracker.

As for the names...hmm, truthfully I would have to ponder that one for a bit. As these games are held purely for fun and there is no financial gain anyone can have from ranking high on the ladder, I'm not so sure I mind. I also found that I COULD tell who some of the players were, so the name thing doesn't really matter in the long haul.

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Irascible
Member
posted November 24, 2003 08:33 PM            
Well, the point I was trying to get across about recruiting was that the least bit of selectiveness would have precluded Knight from the game yesterday. There's simply no way to know a stranger that quick. And it would have saved us some headaches. If DNX has the equivalent of a probationary period, that's great.

As far as the cloned names go, please do consider it again. It could be used as cheat in exactly the fashion I described. It eventually WILL be used as a cheat. The idea that it's only a game didn't come up when PingBoy cheated. And, of course, it shouldn't have. Games have rules to make the playing field as level as possible. As you know well Sue, fairness is essential to fun.

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted November 24, 2003 09:17 PM            
Hmmmm .. purple....

[This message has been edited by =DNX= Matrix (edited November 25, 2003).]

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted November 24, 2003 09:23 PM            
YES PURPLE !!! WOCHYA GONNA DO ABOUT IT

- Err nuthin..

Cool

[This message has been edited by =DNX= Matrix (edited November 25, 2003).]

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Paranor
Member
posted November 24, 2003 10:08 PM            
I didn't mind the name changing. Screws up the screen shots though.

It only took one shot to figure out Super. You know, the one where he nails you on a reverse jump.

That or someone else does it the same.

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted November 24, 2003 10:11 PM            
Super did not play in the DDM Par.

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Irascible
Member
posted November 24, 2003 10:12 PM            
Sorry if editing out my post makes other posts lose their context. But some of this needs to go.

[This message has been edited by Irascible (edited November 25, 2003).]

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted November 24, 2003 10:17 PM            
This forum is fast on broadband you know .....

[This message has been edited by =DNX= Matrix (edited November 25, 2003).]

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DNX-goku
Member
posted November 24, 2003 10:23 PM            
are you guys having PMS or something im i ganna have to send you to your corners

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Irascible
Member
posted November 24, 2003 10:28 PM            
Sorry if editing out my post makes other posts lose their context. But this crap needs to go.

[This message has been edited by Irascible (edited November 25, 2003).]

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KiLlEr
Member
posted November 24, 2003 10:34 PM            
All I can say is I'm glad you guys aren't using the schedualed logscan event for scoring, because I'm sure as hell ain't cleaning up that mess with the names.

I'm clearing out the recorded events for the ranked ddms (not that it matters, since the events were schedualed an hour too early). They're screwed up because of the lack of proper naming standards and the changing names.

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Blue n Gold Sue
Member
posted November 24, 2003 10:51 PM            
Ras, while I do understand your point, what is to keep say YOU, while you were clanless, from joining a clan battle with the name GA_Queen? Mind you, not that you would do it, nor would I ask, but anyone could do that. Say I wanted to play for LWA, all I would have to do is resurrect Smilie's name (I think he was LWA) or take any other name of a player who wasn't playing much.
An invisible tank is definitely a cheat. A name may or may not be cheat...
Is it really THAT important?

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Irascible
Member
posted November 24, 2003 11:08 PM            
Of course, one can adopt anyname they want at anytime. The reason that they wouldn't likely do it in a clan war is that a name has a personality and level of skill attached to it. For example, I could never play as you and get away with it. My style of play and dominance would tell everyone that something fishy was going on. Just as you can recognize aliased players by their style (those of us that have been here for years do it routinely - and I know you're good at it), you could also recognize when someone is playing with a non-alias name that is not their own.

There is clearly a level of security in having one's real name displayed. It seems to me to be a very reasonable measure to insist that real names be used. It's also very consistent with the unofficial rule that has been present for years (maybe even official?): Players names should be announced somewhere before the match. I've already stated the reason for that rule. If alias names are to be allowed in clan wars, then that rule has been made useless.

[This message has been edited by Irascible (edited November 26, 2003).]

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CyberCannon
Member
posted November 24, 2003 11:15 PM            
I can see where Ras is coming from here (point #2), not that Queen's point isn't very valid, and I feel that he has a valid point to be made. While anyone can use someone else's name the use of aliases in "ranked" or "clan" battles is almost an invitation.

With point #1 I must admit that game two was my best game, that was simply because I was lucky enough to get mostly guided weapons. As Max could attest to I was also all over the place due to "Lag", which at least once afforded me good protection from him. Now all that being said game #2 was also the worst on me for lag, but I was having trouble in all the games, including the third when I finally gave up on it.

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May the wind be always at your back.
May the sun shine warm upon your face.
The rains fall soft upon your fields and,
Until we meet again.
May God hold you in the palm of His hand.

CC

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coaxs
Member
posted November 25, 2003 12:48 AM            
Ras, I thought we already talked about this?
1) Everything Sue said about the inner workings of DNX membership is accurate. He is still considered a new recruit, I was hesitant to allow him to come to the clan war myself, but after you said he was okay, I felt better about allowing him access and sent him the clan war ip address. When he initially asked to join DNX the first time I turned him down and said "it would be best if he got to know the other clans better before deciding". He was so adament about joining DNX, I figured it couldn't be that bad.

All DNX recruits go through a new recruit phase, and are subject to more restrictions until they get full membership. This is meant to be the very thing you protest about, that DNX accepts everybody. We may have lack standard in accepting new recruits, but they have to prove their stuff to get full membership. As acting VP of DNX's TM section, I trusted my instinct and an other community members input(namely you Ras) was enough to give him access to the clan war ip.

I'll say Matrix's point since he obviously is to pissed off to say it cordially. We don't publicly comment on BWL membership criteria. DNX does have standards, it has been a clan for a much longer time than BWL and is fully aware of getting the right members. Although time doesn't neccessarily translate into wisdom, it has had more experience with dealing with unruley and inactive people, and the new recruit phase is our way of handling things.

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Tread Marks Ladders

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coaxs
Member
posted November 25, 2003 12:52 AM            
For the record how long did BWL know Glomund before putting him on the clan war. :X

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Tread Marks Ladders

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ARAGON
Member
posted November 25, 2003 01:05 AM            
I agree with point #2. While I got a kick of out the same-name approach (and it did help me not get giddy when I didn't know who it was I was about to take on), it would be prudent to approach DDM's with your registered clan name.

Edited for spelling

[This message has been edited by ARAGON (edited November 25, 2003).]

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Irascible
Member
posted November 25, 2003 01:32 AM            
Paranor spoke for Glomund. I trust Paranor. You may have felt better after my commentary about Knight. But, for the record, I did not "speak for him".

Also consider this:
Matrix mentioned that one purpose of the aliased names was to prevent certain players from being singled out. Now THAT'S actually useful. If I see two tanks at equal distance with apparently equal health and weaponry, one being Cyber and one being 666, the choice is obvious. (With all due respect Cyber - and you do seem to be getting much better btw ) So aliased names serve that purpose. It prevents one team's weaker members from being automatic easy frags. Good show.

But that does NOT mitigate my point about the cheating that will result from aliased names.

And consider the other effect. If aliased names are allowed, I will strongly push that BWL adopt the practice. Whether BWL accepts the recommendation or not, other clans are likely to do so. Do we want the rest of our clan wars to be full of a clan labeled nobodies, some of which may or may not be actual clan members? It would be a meaningless game. Do that to a pro sport and who would watch it? Maybe it was Montana who threw that touchdown... maybe not. LOL!

[This message has been edited by Irascible (edited November 25, 2003).]

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coaxs
Member
posted November 25, 2003 02:14 AM            
2) The use of clones does pose the potential for "pinch-hitters" so to speak. We can publish the member list that participated that Sunday if the community wants.

I'm against it as well, but the majority voted for it on the DNX private boards for the record.

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Tread Marks Ladders

[This message has been edited by coaxs (edited November 25, 2003).]

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coaxs
Member
posted November 25, 2003 02:16 AM            
I'll just post it Cem, Coaxs, Disturbed, BlackKnight, Goku, Matrix.

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Tread Marks Ladders

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wolfman
Member
posted November 25, 2003 06:11 AM            
Have to agree with Ras on the name issue thingy - remember at one point that it was dictated that you will play by your registered name or you scores etc won't count. This was to ensure that only legitimate clan members etc were able to play etc.

As far as recruitment goes - seems a bit quick for the organized clans. But that is just my opinion.

Main thing is the using aliases I was told way back when was a big no no during clan wars period. Use your registered name or don't show. Could even think of aliases as a type of cloaking or stealth yeah that's it (there's a bit of seriousness in that last sentence).

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wolfman
Member
posted November 25, 2003 06:13 AM            
What would prevent ringers playing or someone taking over someone's name already detailed style of play, and with the computer gurus around here I am sure they could find the ip etc etc they were playing from etc

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted November 25, 2003 09:04 AM            
by the same argument, whats to stop my computer logging on as my name but a betrter player being behind the keyboard ?

Its impossible to tell by any other means than a persons telltale playstyle. What i find amazing is that after being accused of "whining" ras is now doing the same lol. AND, to put cows to pasture, im amazed he objects to the clone names, then advocates their use globally - this means we came up with a good strategy everyone will want to copy - KUDOS.

Ras - like it or lump it, BlackKnight was let in on your "say-so", official or not lol

We can drop the clan-clones if you desire - i however shall not be partaking in any further clan ranked events (which i have no doubt pleases you greatly). If coaxs chooses to do away with the clan-clones, i will back that decision 100%. Why should we announce who plays though ? All that needs to be known is that they are from the clan they represent.

PS: The glommund question, can we have it answered, and doesnt LWA allow new folks into ranked events also ? im sure ive seen one or two in events past Also.. zippy (had he shown) would have been in his first DDM, to all intents and purposes, he's new to tm also. Are we to make DDM's an elitest only venue ? or for clan members in general to get in on the action and not feel left out ?

Ok, rant over.

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wolfman
Member
posted November 25, 2003 09:22 AM            
Will post this as a standalone lol
"I remember at one point that it was dictated that you will play by your registered name or you scores etc won't count. This was to ensure that only legitimate clan members etc were able to play etc." JT

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