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Author Topic:   First Bounty: Pingboy (All discussion about Pingboy and the Ranked DDM on Nov 9th do here!)
666
Member
posted November 10, 2003 04:34 AM            
Per Coax...I have reposted the message below.

Ras, Max, Aragon, Harmless, and 666 stay after everyone left the DDM to discussed our surprise player. How could someone come in late and take the lead from Ras?

Surprisingly if Ras had not shown up I don’t think I could have figured this out.

Just how did Pingboy do it?

Very simple, that player had in invisble tank on the server for a part of the game.

How do I know this?

I fought an invisible tank. I was fortunate to be by a spawn point when I heard the typical spawn noise of a tank. And yet I did not see a tank that should be there. I decide to go through the spawn point and I hit something. I proceeded to fire at the invisible object and I heard the sounds of a tank being hit yet there was not tank there. Then I could go through the spawn point. My first thought is an invisible tank…but how do I prove it.

Now its Ras’ turn.

In game 3, Ras stopped playing in the last 7 minutes of the game. He sat and watched the chat lines. Pingboy racked up 5 frags and yet Ras did not see a single chat line regarding one of his frags. Thank you Ras for stopping the play.

Other facts that other players saw:

- One player was getting double frag messages on their chat line
- Guido comments that there was an AI in the game at the end of a match.
- Other players said that pingboy did not show up on the radar.

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666
Member
posted November 10, 2003 04:41 AM            
Need to know if it is possible to switch tanks and not lose your score?

I know that it is currently not possible...but is it possible if the files get changed on the server.

Why?

Well, I think pingboy was switching between an invisible tank and a stock tank. That is why the blue chat line "pingboy is joining the server" message came up. He had to switch between the tanks to make them seem like they were there.

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coax
Administrator
posted November 10, 2003 04:41 AM            
Whoever is able to duplicate the above bug will have the title of "Modder God" or any other title they wish under their name for at least a period of 6 months. Try to do this by any means possible on your own servers.

Good luck, and go get that title. We need to know how this was done!

[This message has been edited by coax (edited November 10, 2003).]

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted November 10, 2003 05:50 AM            
The invisible tank is easy... but it has to be done by the host of the server. You assign a tank but not a skin, without a skin tm just simply doesnt allow others to view the object even though it does process the maths to do with the objects presence.

The double hits is more than likly due to a cable connection setting. This was an issue bout 5 years ago with a DNX members accusrd of hacking in another game. MS had released a fix for it, and that solved our issues at the time.

If Pingboy was on the server and was a listed player - what WAS his/her Ping and did they have a radar blip ? - 666 ?

Either way, this won't be a hack, its more than likly it was one of bams hidden tanks with an incomplete or corrupted ent... The old LDA hidden tanks (as far as i know) are all available on all LDA servers long as you have an ent for it so its in your tank selection list.

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted November 10, 2003 05:50 AM            
PS: to beat ras in such a short time you have to be:

A) A better player
B) Taking advantage of a game bug

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KiLlEr
Member
posted November 10, 2003 09:02 AM            
Nice theories, but so far none of them are correct.

And no Scarlet, its not a bug.

Anyone like to venture another guess or should I bestow my wisdom upon ye? LOL

And no, it was not me. I don't play on the LDA servers.

[This message has been edited by KiLlEr (edited November 10, 2003).]

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666
Member
posted November 10, 2003 11:07 AM            
pingboy had dialup ping of 300-400

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Blue n Gold Sue
Member
posted November 10, 2003 12:03 PM            
Given this is a thread about what may have happened, I'd love to hear your ideas.

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VorDesigns
Member
posted November 10, 2003 01:12 PM            
OK,

Not that I was there, but here are some observations in other games, a user name of spaces is acceptable in TM; therefor it is possibble to be killed by a null user. This user shows up on radar, but is harder to see as we all look for the user-name to find our oponents.
From time to time when I log in to a game, an ai (or someone) that is invisible (conjecture being that is the ai I replaced) shoots me for a while. I am able to shoot back and I have on occasion killed this ghost.
While I haven't seen it in a long time, I remember logging into games where I couldn't see the tank other than a swirly looking spritey thing, but it was on the server with a user. My installation was always the culprit.
Is it possible that something was injected into a server pack and that running ENTegrity on the servers might shed some light on the subject?
Good luck, I'll see if I can reproduce; which server was DDM held on and can the configuration ENT be posted (including stock portions for a comparitive analisys?

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Echoes from the Void
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You can kill them, but you cannot make them surrender
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http://www.vordesigns.com


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Blue n Gold Sue
Member
posted November 10, 2003 01:34 PM            
The player/tank in question DID have a name from what I have heard:
Ping Boy
This player had a tank that was visible sometimes and invisible other times
This player was sometimes visible on radar (when in a visable tank) and reported NOT to be visable on radar when invisible
This player was noted to connect and disconnect from the server multiple times (though it has been conjectured that this may have been how the tank went from visible to invisible)

What is disturbing to me is that:
1) this was a ranked DDM
2) Ranked DDM's should be free from anything that adds to one's advantace
3) exploiting a bug in a game should be done on one's own server or in a match that isnt' ranked
4) It just isn't playing fair

This bothers me on so many levels I can't even really put adequate words to it.

IP:

KiLlEr
Member
posted November 10, 2003 01:48 PM            
There are a couple of ways that one can do this and as I said, it is not a bug.

For obvious reasons I will not explain them in a public forum ( well, duh ).

I'll explain them to you when I get home Sue.

And if it bugs you so much, why didn't someone ban him? I didn't spend my time building all those extras into TMLogScan for nothing ya know.

[This message has been edited by KiLlEr (edited November 10, 2003).]

IP:

corpse
Member
posted November 10, 2003 01:49 PM            
so is there cheat codes out there for TM ?
that takes ALL the fun out of the game .

dose he / she got a IP that can be blocked ?


and it was not me !
i was asleep .
enless i'm sleep playing again ;-)
LOL !

IP:

KiLlEr
Member
posted November 10, 2003 01:51 PM            
Nope no cheat codes.

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted November 10, 2003 01:56 PM            
There are things that can be done in TM not many know about yet, so as killer says, in private.

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BamZipPow
Member
posted November 10, 2003 02:45 PM            
Wow...lots of discussion.

First. No cheat codes are in TM. I should know...I've looked.

There are many "different" exploits that are in TM that I'm sure you don't want me to go into in a public forum but not what you would call cheats. Some are more visual tweaks than anything else. A few are actual global tweaks while others don't do anything (that I've found so far). All of these things I found out by trying them out while modding and not looking fer a clear cheat.

One scenario:

Player gets a new game at the store.
Player installs ALL the map/tank/weapon packs there are.
Player sees a server that has people on it.
Player joins and has fun in an "official" game.
In the process, player takes top score and is branded a cheat. Sounds familiar to any of us when we first started out in this game?

Just curious, did anyone ask the new player to leave or tell them that the game was an official tourneyment? Almost all of the official games that I joined (in other games) I was kindly asked to leave. I couldn't even watch either! That or I was booted from their server.

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BamZipPow
Member
posted November 10, 2003 02:46 PM            
Switching between tanks and not losing yer score is not possible. I've tried...

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coaxs
Member
posted November 10, 2003 03:56 PM            
To inject further speculation to the debate. A .luv and .lwo were uploaded to the lda server somehow the tank uploaded seems to look like two boxes stacked on top of eachother.

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BamZipPow
Member
posted November 10, 2003 04:04 PM            
Two boxes stacked on top of each other means the ent isn't calling the right mesh. TM defaults that to a square box.

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KiLlEr
Member
posted November 10, 2003 04:14 PM            
gee, more missing files.........

And to think we've lost half of the TeamCTF files requiring me to pospone the game for an hour while I reuploaded them on friday.

(B<|)

INTRUDER ALERT!!!
INTRUDER ALERT!!!

IP:

666
Member
posted November 10, 2003 04:43 PM            
I think one of the clues that need to be solved is the blue chat line coming up multiply times.
I believe that the hack was not thorough, the hacker did not take into account that the server would respond to pingboy doing changes on the server. What those changes are, I am not sure. That is why I suppected that pingboy was changing tanks.

Could someone list all the reason for a blue chat line other then listed below:
- Coming on the server
- switching tanks

I can only think of 2 of them.

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BamZipPow
Member
posted November 10, 2003 05:04 PM            
The server was not "hacked" and no changes were made to the server. This would be obvious to the date/time of any file changes on the server. Also FTP logs will tell you of who (IP address) accessed what on the servers.

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BamZipPow
Member
posted November 10, 2003 05:09 PM            
I checked the FTP server earlier and all the files (for the DDM server) on there are verified stock.

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BamZipPow
Member
posted November 10, 2003 05:13 PM            
This reminds me of the Microsoft bounty...

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Irascible
Member
posted November 10, 2003 06:09 PM            
"In the process, player takes top score and is branded a cheat. Sounds familiar to any of us when we first started out in this game?"

It sounds familiar, in a hypothetical sense. But hypothetically speaking - back when I was newer and Supe was the man to beat - I never came into an AI-less twenty minute game seven minutes late, having spotted Supe 12 frags, and then proceeded to rack frags up a rate 75 percent faster than Supe so that I may beat him. That's exactly what happened in game three. I know because PingBoy was very late to game three, so much so that I thought we we're rid of him. Those that know my playing style know that I hit the tab button several times a minute to see what's going on.

Furthermore, no one comes into every ranked game late and beats me every time by just enough - two frag count ties no less. I suspect the third game would have been the same had I not stopped playing it at the end.

A summary:

-Impossible skill (75% faster frag rate with no AIs to account for the easy kills), especially given the ping.
-Sometimes/all the time invisible tank.
-MANY missing frag messages.
-Multiple log on attempts EVERY game.
-Late EVERY game.
-Sometimes/all the time missing from radar.

Incidentally, I've said to several people several times that I believed PingBoy thought of what he was doing as a joke - as opposed to something devious. I couldn't imagine someone smart enough to mess around with the server being so magnificently stupid as to think their heavy handed cheating would go unnoticed. So yes, har-har-dee-har-har. Had I been in his shoes with Supe and Coax as opponents, I would have been laughing my @ss off.

[This message has been edited by Irascible (edited November 10, 2003).]

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Blue n Gold Sue
Member
posted November 10, 2003 06:45 PM            
You have got to be kidding that you think PingBoy didnt' know that it was a ranked DDM. ISN'T THAT WHAT IS IN THE SERVER DESCRIPTION?
Isn't the Sunday DDM schedule been plastered all over this place?
I am assuming that whoever pingboy is, it is someone familiar with the game. To be familiar with the game, you gotta play it. To play it, you are known to the community, and would be seen on servers.
I wasn't at the DDM. If I had known of what was happening, I would have asked him to leave. I DID do that with T3S in the first public clan battle we had two months ago. If I had known of the problem I would have kicked pingboy from the server, but I DIDN'T know!!
As far as the game logs, I can't seem them on the LDA server ftp. I have to check with Killer about how logscan works. The files are empty.
As far as the tank.txt goes, it is an old file, and identical in size to a different server's tank.txt file, and not dated the appropriate date.
I am awaiting until I talk with Joey about servers in general and LogScan in particular before I post much more.

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