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Author Topic:   Kong's Mod
Paranor
Member
posted February 17, 2003 12:54 AM            
I finally, after too many times losing the file ( ) applied Kong's terrain mod. This cut down on the amount of damage to the terrain on most weapons. Gotta still have the nuke crater.

Since it's SSO - should we use this on all DDM's? I found it more enjoyable. I didn't get frustrated by getting stuck, etc. I think it works great in large turnouts but shouldn't have it in small.

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Irascible
Member
posted February 17, 2003 01:54 AM            
Yes! Yes! Yes!

What the heck. We now use modded maps in ranked games. Let's do this too. Pretty soon we'll be using modded weapons and tanks. I'll consider it a personal victory once we get the tri-mirv nuke in there.

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted February 17, 2003 06:13 AM            
Tri-Mirv rocks ya world - thats why its on the DMF Anarchy server - Personally id love to see a ranked DDM on there - would make an interesting change

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666
Member
posted February 17, 2003 10:20 AM            
Well ParI do not want to use the modded weapons for the DDMs. Below is my reasoning.

The Clan maps do not have concentrated rutting:

One reason for the number and arrangement of weapon points of the clan maps was to reduce the concentration of the rutting around the weapon points, which I have tested with 40 tanks. In the stock maps, most of the rutting occurred around the weapon points because there were so few weapons. It became hard to get a weapon because all the battling occurs around the weapon points. With the clan maps, rutting is not a problem because the rutting is disturbed throughout the map on several battlefields. And the battling takes place where there are no weapon points.

Map rutting is a part of the game that players expect and depend on:

Another reason it that the stock weapon deform the land that veteran player have come to expect. I remember trying to protect myself from fire by throwing a dirt ball down to create a hill. To my surprise, no dirt mound, thus I was fragged. Also, I was trying to get at someone by using MRLs to dig them out, but the ridge top stayed the same.

There is a benefit:

Now, there probably was a benefit for the reduction of the rutting. It would be along the lines of data being sent to all the computers. Less info, like land deformation, sent out will reduce the potential of lag. The fact that players with 400 ping did not have any problems throughout the playing was a benefit.

When to use the SSO non-deforming weapons:

The question should be when should we start to use the SSO non-deforming weapons with the clan maps. I would say that at this B-Day bash was very appropriate. It was not ranked event. It was important that everyone had a good time, which everyone did. Thank you Par for thinking of it.

I would not use them at any DDM. Ni, who always has a 400 ping, came in 1st at a DDM using the clan maps without the SSO non-deforming weapons.

My vote is no for the SSO non-deforming weapons for any DDM.

I would wait and see for a Clan battle. See what is the reaction is from the 400 ping players. If there is lag and their ping does not stay low, then it would be a benefit. Need to test it first.

All comments are welcomed

edit: grammer as always

[This message has been edited by 666 (edited February 17, 2003).]

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Paranor
Member
posted February 17, 2003 01:17 PM            
hmmm - good point. That would defeat the purpose of the clan maps eh? And Ras has a good point - this can quickly get out of hand for ranked DDM's.

The purpose of ranked DDM's is skillz. Since Ras doesn't have any, I can see why he was being sarcastic.

DOH!

So far I would say use the terrain mods for non-ranked games. Sound about right? More tweaking after we play more heavy use on the clan maps too. thoughts?

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666
Member
posted February 17, 2003 02:09 PM            
Almost forgot this also.

I would look at what component of the TM game that creates the most data to determine what effect lag and ping rates.

Land deformation does create data but it is one time event.

Laying plasma mines create x-y-z coordinates that must be transmitted for the duration of the plasma mines. I would think that this is the same data as a tank movement. Essentially, a plasma mine is a temporary tank. If you have 20 tanks on already and 2 players lay mines, all of the sudden you have 10 extra temporary tanks. That will cause intermittent lag. That is why I had you reduce the weight of the plasma mines so they did not come up so often. I think in the end, the movement of plasma mines needs to be change to stationary mines. I do miss laying mines as a trap for the unwary player. Maybe that is the solution instead of the weight reduction.

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KiLlEr
Member
posted February 17, 2003 02:17 PM            
That won't help 666, as any ent marked "transitory = 0" will be syncronized between the client and server on a continual basis. As all weapons MUST be "transitory = 0" or else they won't work, it dosn't matter if they move or not (see my aerial mine layer mod).

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Irascible
Member
posted February 17, 2003 03:02 PM            
LOL Devil! As Par correctly noted, I was being sarcastic about using modded weapons. Though it really had more to do with the slippery slope that we might be going down than the low crater mod in particular. The tri-mirv doesn't stand a chance of getting in. But who's to say that we couldn't introduce balanced weapon mods? There are a number of them that are both fun and not any more potent than a stock weapon. If modded maps are good for ranked DDMs then why not balanced modded weapons?

Speaking of cratering, I'm still not believing my lying eyes:
"Map rutting is a part of the game that players expect and depend on"
Hmmm... it sounds like an argument against clan maps. So cratering is bad but not always - sort of like all people are created equal but some are more equal than others.

(BTW, I DO see the difference between the two types of cratering and understand your point. It's just that I consider it my duty to hassle the person that successfully turned ranked DDMs into a modded event. :^P :^))

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666
Member
posted February 17, 2003 05:03 PM            
Killer, thanks for pointing that out.

And for, Ras...I am glad that you are now willing to do the Clan maps in a DDM. I see in the another thread that you challenged Max in the next ranked DDM. Even you can come around to reason.

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Blue n Gold Sue
Member
posted February 17, 2003 05:31 PM            
My two pennies worth:
(this having nothing to do with the modder of the maps, btw).
The clan maps are so much better to play on. As a relative neophyte, I die more than the more skilled players. That means I spawn more. More spawning = more spawn fragging --> more spawning -->> more spawn fragging. It can be (and HAS BEEN) a pretty endless cycle at times. It is VERY hard to play with one is spendig all ones time spawining. No skill there, IMHO, to take out an unarmed newbie tank.
There is similar stuff with the weapons. For certain, a cruise missle is easier to use than say a dirt ball, and an plasma gun on a distant hill is far easier than laying plasma mines. A few good spawns on a few good sites and the flavor of the game changes. With more spawn spots, more "shopping" for the right weapon, I think the game DOES turn to a game of skill more than a game of spawning luck.
I'm not a user of free look. That is my choice (I just can't seem to coordinate more that two things at once). Other players use it religiously. I would never recommend taking it out, though, as it would change HOW the game is played. Some might (no, WILL) say that the clan maps DO change how the game is played, but I think it makes the game MORE balance, not favoring the non-spawners as much.

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Sailor
Administrator
posted February 17, 2003 05:33 PM            
Another point I did not see mentioned is that when a new player joins after a match is started - say half way through on a particular map - they will have to receive all the information through packet updates as to where all the craters are and current position of tanks, weapons, etc... This may be one of the factors of lag that we often do not account for. One client receiving heavy packet updates to catch up with the current state of the game. This inevitably has to affect all playing users since it will slow down overall packet distribution based on the pipe it has to work with and the number of players currently involved in the game.

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[This message has been edited by Sailor (edited February 17, 2003).]

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Blue n Gold Sue
Member
posted February 17, 2003 05:33 PM            
As far as damage goes, we should give the clan maps a trial without the sso damage minimizer and see how the damage goes there, too. IE: check player's pings, rutting, use of alt + k to get out of situations.

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Paranor
Member
posted February 17, 2003 06:22 PM            
that's the plan sue.

Ras, there will never be modded weapons in a DDM. Tweaking maybe to help the slow players. Still in beginning stages I guess.

And the next modded DDM we must have the tri-nuke.

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Irascible
Member
posted February 17, 2003 06:52 PM            
"Even you can come around to reason."
Not.

Tweaking to help the slow players Par? Are we talking affirmative action for the Tread Marks impaired? - which would eventually degrade into a demand for reparations for the years of abuse by our Tread Mark's forefathers?

[This message has been edited by Irascible (edited February 17, 2003).]

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666
Member
posted February 18, 2003 12:16 AM            
Ras...LMAO

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666
Member
posted February 18, 2003 12:23 AM            
Yes Sailor...I always forget that and I always felt the effect on other servers...though I have never felt any update lag on Par's server, which is a good sign.

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Paranor
Member
posted February 18, 2003 11:10 AM            
lol ras.

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-DNX-Ni
Member
posted February 18, 2003 12:24 PM            
Do wot u guys like but as I see it, using the clan DDMmaps and non-deformation mod levels the playing field between broadband and dial-up user considerably.

For one, when I played in ddm's before, there may have been 15 people on and my ping would fluctuate regularly throughout the game. I may have been about 4th05h until a point in the game where my narrowband is handling l=far toomuch information and I get a hell of a lot of turret jitters.

Since these have been introduced, it's helped me with less lag and (due to a better modem now) a better ping. Atleastmuch more stable than before! Hell, I got a 300 ping for about a min on Sunday night's fracas. Then once the game had settled it returned to 400 but still. Came in 2 mins late and was one shot from winning again. The next game I was 4th! Go figure! I never got above 5th before the introduction of clan DDMs and non-deformation!

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Rex R
Member
posted February 18, 2003 01:11 PM            
from what I've seen. tm servers stuter when ppl join because the server is busy loading the tank model(s) just like a single player game, the clients recieve updated crater info at the same rate as anyone else in the game (netrate) so no craters lets them join much quicker. the biggies for causing server stutters are large scale land deformation and large amounts of 'scorching'. running a single player game with a p4 1.5ghz and the 'midnite' mod can drop framerates down to a crawl. the 'yuri-mole' (and great wall)takes it down to almost a slide show. reducing the scorch w/o touching craters will provide nearly as much benifits as doing both craters and scorch. as others have said some weapons are intended and expected to deform the landscape such as the dirtball(in general the dirtball fires slow enough to avoid causing probs)

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666
Member
posted February 18, 2003 02:11 PM            
Ni, in the DDM that you came in 1st, what was your ping rate? What was your lag experience? That DDM did not use the Kong's mods. Let us know.

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666
Member
posted February 19, 2003 03:49 PM            
Yo Ni...still want to know about your lag and ping rate in the DDM the you came in 1st place. Will have to ICQ you when I get home.

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BamZipPow
Member
posted February 19, 2003 06:34 PM            
He wants to know so he can steal yer mojo...

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-DNX-Ni
Member
posted February 19, 2003 07:39 PM            
hey man, chill! lol Was at work! My ping was 400, as usual! The lag wasn't as much as compared to normal DDM's on LDA or Par's on a sunday nite! I guess my gameplay adjusted to ur maps better!

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