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Author Topic:   Tossing some ideas for definition of an "active" clan member
coaxs
Member
posted September 21, 2002 06:48 PM            
I would say the bare minimum requirements to be considered active in a clan is at least one post on the LDA bboard in 6 months or participation in a clan event within 6 months.

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Tread Marks Ladders

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KONG
Member
posted September 21, 2002 06:57 PM            
Please, lets not go this far?

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UGotDaNuke

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Random Chaos
Member
posted September 21, 2002 07:20 PM            
Coax, you know that makes my clan have only 1 active member.

Thats just NOT FAIR!!!!

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coaxs
Member
posted September 21, 2002 07:33 PM            
Okay we won't go this far. How about to be active at least one post on the bboard in the past 10 years.

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synack
Member
posted September 21, 2002 08:16 PM         
spam.

There. Now I'm active.

um ... er ... but, I'm not in clan.

So what does that make me? An active non-member?

Maybe I'll start my own clan-of-one? Nah .. it's been done.

Is a puzzlement.

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Irascible
Member
posted September 21, 2002 08:19 PM            
OK, let's not go this far. But the question has a purpose. Namely: Any Tom, Dick or Harry can start a clan with no members, very few members or members that don't play much. Does clan X as described get the exact same influence as DNX at the clan council? That's why the poll question in Coax's other thread and that's why he asks here how to define active.

Yeah, I know Kong, you don't want it to happen in the first place. I'm to the point where I wish we'd just do polls and forget the council too. But since the council idea staggers along half alive, the question needs answering. In fact, it must get answered. The idea that a clan with one active member should get the same influence as one with 15 active members (or whatever DNX or DOG has) is absurd.

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Irascible
Member
posted September 21, 2002 08:21 PM            
BTW, I'm sure no one cares, but I'd describe someone as active if they play the game once in a while (once a month at least?). Describing active as someone who posts here misses the point. The point is the game - not chit chat.

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KONG
Member
posted September 21, 2002 08:26 PM            
A clan is a clan. if it has 6 or 40 members, it should be recognized. The whole clan council thingy is a farce anyway. iT IS ONLY A WAY TO ENFORCE THE WILL OF A FEW UPON THE MASSES RAS

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UGotDaNuke

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Irascible
Member
posted September 21, 2002 08:33 PM            
Duh. I wasn't asking what a clan was. I was suggesting that a clan that comprises perhaps 1% of the players shouldn't have the same influence as one that comprises 20% of the players. In other words, should a one player clan have one sixth of the vote? That would give the one player clan the same influence as a 30 player clan. Not right. I think that's why Coax is, and I would myself, asking the question of what active is and how many actives have to be in a clan for it to have a vote.

A straight vote by means of a poll of all peeps would not have that problem. And it would be a lot easier to do.

[This message has been edited by Irascible (edited September 21, 2002).]

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Blue n Gold Sue
Member
posted September 21, 2002 08:48 PM            
I am all for that. Forget the private meeting deal. Post questions here on the UBB and let people comment. Oh, wait, we can't do that yet. . .Coax's first meeting with the questions hasn't been closed yet. I guess we all have to respond to that one first

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kv
Member
posted September 21, 2002 09:03 PM            
Kong: Done properly, this will not be the will of a few being pushed on the masses. As I understand it, coax has brought up issues for clan reps to take to their members, members decide how to vote and tell clan rep, clan rep takes vote to council.

Please point out where the masses do not have a voice in this.

Ras: How do you do a straight vote and keep it limited to only people in clans? Do people not in a clan have a right to vote about clan issues?


Everyone in a clan has a voice, one clan, one vote, simple.

If anyone not in a clan is reading this and would like to participate in clan events, or if you are no longer satisfied with your own clan, consider joining LWA. You can maintain a partial lonewolf status, all that is asked is that you participate in LWA issues because everyone is equal.

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Don't want to join a clan with so many requirements? Join LWA. Enrolement is open. Just contact any member listed on the LWA page and check out our new forums: http://home.woh.rr.com/kvorlon/LWA.htm


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coaxs
Member
posted September 21, 2002 09:40 PM            
Tiss-Tiss so many people that don't read my posts and take the intent of this topic which was the definition of an "active" clan member to someplace else. Here is a possible solution to the problem that I posted on the 20th.

"I can already hear the opposition to 1a from the smaller clans present and future. Just to assure smaller clans that they will have a voice at future clan councils a new policy may be adopted where in all clans even one member clans get a vote. But clans with 6 or more people are allowed to veto. This will stimulate smaller clans the need to grow in members, and assures that minority clans can still vote. This of course will need to be voted on at the next clan council."

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Tread Marks Ladders

[This message has been edited by coaxs (edited September 21, 2002).]

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Irascible
Member
posted September 21, 2002 09:42 PM            
kv

One person one vote would be fine.
But as it stands, the formula works out to be this:
1 member clan = one vote
25 member clan = one vote
Not equitable.

A straight vote could be easily limited to clan members. Instead of one vote per clan, have each clan take votes individually and the clan reps list the results here. It would be one clan = X votes (where X is the number of votes given by its active members for and against). That would be a straight vote. No clan would have undue influence. And since it would be done on can BBs and brought back by the reps, there would be no fraud.

It would work out to:
One member clan with one member that bothers to vote = 1 vote.
20 member clan with 10 that bother to vote = 10 votes.
That or something like it would the most democratic way to do it.

[This message has been edited by Irascible (edited September 21, 2002).]

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coaxs
Member
posted September 21, 2002 09:46 PM            
I would say Ras' idea of each clan member gets a vote is a good option along with my option, anyone else have any other solutions?

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Tread Marks Ladders

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KONG
Member
posted September 21, 2002 10:00 PM            
Post your ideas on this BBs and let everyone reply?

those darn ppl and all their opinions. Can't have them mucking up all the plans now can we...We must have order and democracy here. Shut up you pplz, we will think for you...

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UGotDaNuke

[This message has been edited by KONG (edited September 21, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by KONG (edited September 21, 2002).]

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KONG
Member
posted September 21, 2002 10:07 PM            
Doesn't this whole clan coucil thingy sound a little absurd???

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UGotDaNuke

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Irascible
Member
posted September 21, 2002 10:11 PM            
Maybe. It's a fancy way of taking a poll. But some people really want it to happen. So you can influence it to your liking and it will probably happen (since Coax has taken up the cause!!! ). Or you can deride it and it will probably happen. It's a free country and/or BB... mostly.

[This message has been edited by Irascible (edited September 21, 2002).]

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kv
Member
posted September 21, 2002 10:12 PM            
ok..

ras, possible scenario with your setup:

issue comes up that would benefit smaller clans. Assume that DNX and BWL don't like this idea and all vote against it, but all the other clans vote for it.

your setup means that the idea is killed.
one clan, one vote makes it 6 for, 2 against.

.. guess i'm just viewing this from the view of the american voting system. It prevents large cities (clans) from out voting smaller ones simply by having more people.

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Don't want to join a clan with so many requirements? Join LWA. Enrolement is open. Just contact any member listed on the LWA page and check out our new forums: http://home.woh.rr.com/kvorlon/LWA.htm


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coaxs
Member
posted September 21, 2002 10:20 PM            
"Doesn't this whole clan coucil thingy sound a little absurd???"

Perhaps, lets just try it out and if it doesn't work out, then we don't need to do it again.

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Tread Marks Ladders

[This message has been edited by coaxs (edited September 21, 2002).]

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Irascible
Member
posted September 21, 2002 10:22 PM            
Yeah, you have a point kv. But we've got to choose the lesser of the evils. A senate/house setup (which is what you refer to of course) wouldn't be practical for such a small group of people. (LOL! Imagine Kong's reaction if we did propose a TM senate and house - what the heck, throw in a TM prez and judiciary - LOL!).

I think maybe Coax's proposal of veto power for a certain sized clan is one way of addressing the issue kv. It ain't perfect. But it's something.

And the issue I'm really driving at (OK, I'm going to say it, don't flame me NeoKi - actually, what the heck, go for it) is that it would be silly for ZE to have the same input as DNX. 2 TMers equally the influence of 10 or more? One clan prez who doesnt play and John B (who does of course) simply shouldnt be given the same influence as DNX. If that happens, it would encourage a bunch of clans to pop up just so their founders could claim a seat at the council. On the other hand, one clan member one vote wouldn't cause any such mischief.

[This message has been edited by Irascible (edited September 21, 2002).]

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Irascible
Member
posted September 21, 2002 10:25 PM            
Of course, we'd have to hope and assume that each clan would keep it honorable until proven otherwise. For example, here's the public roster for BWL:

Ace - Cell - desolation1900 - Dreamer - Hammer - JVortex - Kevlar - Moriarty - Paranor - Peeeto - Rex R - Stuart - Swisher - Tiger - Vlad - Weatherman - Lightning - Irascible - Glomund - Sailor - Meloncracker

Personally, if I were a member of another clan, I'd have no problem with JV or Dreamer voting. We don't see much of them. But they do pop their heads up from RL once in a while to say hello. But if I saw Stuart listed as a vote (with all due respect for Stuart) I'd consider it completely bogus. I'm sure most people here have no clue who he or some of the others are.

That's why the reps would need to list who voted when they came back.

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coaxs
Member
posted September 21, 2002 10:30 PM            
I have no clue who Stuart is.

DNX would also have similar trouble, since there are some members that predominately play other games but occasionally open up TM to see what it is all about.

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Tread Marks Ladders

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SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted September 21, 2002 11:28 PM            
So why don't you do it like real life represetatives and have one per clan population.Like one Rep for every 5 players.You know like California has the most Reps because they have the highest population.

I find this idea kinda silly too right now but it would be nice finally have answers to some questions and to work kinks out.

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GoldAnt_Number1
Member
posted September 21, 2002 11:41 PM            
*gets bugged and skips down to bottem of topic* dudes, we don't need the council though. Ahem, it sounds as if you guys are rewritting the constituion Why make a rule/law unless you can enforce it? Why don't we all just keep on going how we went on before, there was never a problem until somebody thought they saw a problem, its like if somebody asks you "hey does that apple tree on the right look bigger" your mind begins to grow and adapt to make that apple tree look bigger Not to say it couldn't work the other way in which case im going insane and you should ignore this post, but please lets hope none of us are insane (yet). Active clan member.... I think you guys can figure it out without any "RULE"... were all smart enough aren't we? WM, hes still alive, but hes not active, he will be soon I hope, Goku, used to be inactive but now hes making a come back (ye haw)...... I think a fair thing to do, is to *FORGET* any clans when voting on something if you guys do decide to go forth with this clan council, lets make it a Super De Duperdy council EVERYONE gets 1 Vote, there is then no problem to representation. Then even an ENTIRE clan doesn't have to agree with something, you can customize and get RIGHT down to the points you need to correct? Lets just say in TM there was a Light speed fast tank with no armor, and a fat tank with 100000000000000 armor and no speed...... which would you pick? prehaps a combo? well it'd be pretty pitful/bad if you couldn't. (ok, so maybe my analogies aren't the greatest, but its the thought the counts eh? hehe)

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KONG
Member
posted September 22, 2002 12:07 AM            
Can you say "Fillibuster"?

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UGotDaNuke

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