This topic is 3 pages long:   1  2  3  |
Author Topic:   CLAN WAR 7 RESULTS
Paranor
Member
posted July 21, 2002 09:25 PM            
Are up at my web site.

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-How's it going bugalugs? I know bugger all and I'm buggered. So bugger off.
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BWL-Paranor, BWL-Tiger, DNX-Tiggs and D.O.G.-Aragon.
Family. Redefined.
DDM Pics, schedule and other here!

IP:

Irascible
Member
posted July 21, 2002 10:07 PM            
Are we picking up the regular schedule next Sunday? So it will be a modded map DDM?

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Paranor
Member
posted July 21, 2002 10:19 PM            
yup

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SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted July 21, 2002 11:04 PM            
Off we go.I didn't have fun at this clan war or the other mainly because I was on the recieving end of a butt kicking.This has been brought up before and I didn't like the idea at the time but now it looks like it needs to happen so clan wars are more even and not generally dependant on the number of players that show up for a clan.We need a limit for each team so its not so lopsided.Not to say that DOG dosen't deserve it.They did a great job and deserved to win this clan ddm.There was no way in hell that DNX could have won that thing with the number of people that showed up for DOG and BWL.I understand that a few DNX players couldn't join(a player limit?) the server and went to play on another.So it was basically me,BZP,and Nezmad vs everyone in the DOG clan and everyone in BWL.Which as you can tell was just a waste of our time showing up.So my question...is there anyway that there can be a limit to the number that can play for each clan?Say 6 players?First come first serve?Just think if DNX got all of their actives and inactives to show it would be 20 DNX vs whoever else could manage to fit on the server.And it would be no suprise as to who would win that.That woudln't be fun or fair for the other clans.I think Clan DDM's needed to be a decision of skill rather than the number of players that show.And it needs to be distributed equally amoung the clans so each clan has a chance win and it would truely be a mark of who is the better clan skill wise.

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Irascible
Member
posted July 21, 2002 11:49 PM            
Lot's of thoughts expressed on that exact topic here Supe:
/forums/archive/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002425.html

The real funny part is that you seem to have had a serious change of heart.

[This message has been edited by Irascible (edited July 21, 2002).]

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BamZipPow
Member
posted July 22, 2002 12:23 AM            
It still might be a better bet if you had a Clan vs Clan. That would give each side about 12 players each. The other could play on another server awaiting the outcome. It could keep it fun and have some good competition between the clans. What do you think?

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Neo
Member
posted July 22, 2002 01:10 AM            
wah wah wah

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SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted July 22, 2002 01:47 AM            
What part of I didn't like it because we were outnumbered didn't you understand? 10 DOG's vs 3 DNX is not even close to a fair fight.DNX might as well have not shown up and the reults would have been the same.I felt I was just there to watch BWL and DOG fight for the lead.
BZP:Thats a good idea but you'd still might have a number problem if we took on the DOG and we had only 3 show up.It seems to me that it would work best if we simply limit the number that a clan can have play.And that might very well mean that I wouldn't get to play.
Neo o you need you diaper changed? Its not me crying,this just clan war common sense.I have been in other clans in other games and thats usually how they work.X number vs X number.

And if it dosen't bother you now I will make it my life's goal to get every DNX player there the next game and there will be 4 players spots for BWL,LWA,DOG,GA to fill.I guess one person to represent each clan? Or better yet lets just all show up at 8 and whoever has the most players will be the winner then we can all leave


Anybody else have a better idea lets have it.

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SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted July 22, 2002 01:57 AM            
And Ras..you actually said the word "fair" in that thread.LOL

Change of heart is obvious.I wasn't the underdog then and the smaller clans said nothing.So I wouldn't expect DOG or BWL to want to limit players just like I didn't then.But given the numbers for the last two Sundays I would have to say we do need that now.
Just like tonight I tried to get some of the smaller teams to join the DNX team.Some did but the others must not have cared because they didn't budge.

And what is this BWL conspiracy?How come it was about 5 DNX players that weren't allowed to join the server?LOL...Paranor!Did you write some program that made sure DNX was kept out over any other clan?LOL

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted July 22, 2002 02:13 AM            
The player limit was 24, probably for lag reasons, this means that with 4 big clans on the field (DNX/BWL/DOG/LWA - rest combo for clans with lessermembers) an average of 5 top players from each clan should be nominated and be the first to arrive a game early.

Others should attempt to connect at the start of the first game to fill up any missing places, I beleive this to be a fair system.

Certainly made a change from "bathing in DNX players" dont it Ras lol

Put simply late commers wont get on a packed server, so the point of note here is BE EARLY. Kudos to all that showed tho

What biffles me is the fact that I played 2 of the games yet i only show on one of the scoreboards. I forgot to change my name after messing around at nems practice so i was DNX-Waskally Wabbit LOL...

In the last game i played we were winning, and BWL just pipped us to the post in the last seconds of the match. Now either everyone stayed for a 4th melee or i missed the first 2 lol.

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IP:

Irascible
Member
posted July 22, 2002 03:02 AM            
Teehee.

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SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted July 22, 2002 03:09 AM            
You came in towards the end of the 3rd and final game.The game you must be referring to was the cooldown game which dosen't count.Although we did have the lead for several minutes in the 3rd but thats only after we took on a few lonewolves and LWA Harmless I believe.
I still don't really like the limit team number idea but it seems to be the only fair way to have this type of event.
We could do like BZP said and have only two clans play at a time but it seems it would have to be at a time other than 8est on Sunday and then Paranor has the only server that I know of that can handle that amount.Or we could have PAranor host it at 8est and everyone else play a DDM on LDA.
Paranor,we had 24 on tonight and it ran fine.Do you think it could handle more with your new setup?I would feel better if we could bump up the clan limit to say 6-7.LWA dosen't have that many and neither does GA.Maybe the two can combine to make a big 4th clan?If we could limit it to 4 clans/7 players that would only be 28 and I think the server could handle it and the big clans would only have to leave one or two out.Maybe we could have a signup sheet to know who is playing(since some woould have other thing to do and it wouldn't really effect the clan that much) and have the IP hidden so loners don't come.
I'm just trying to throw out a few ideas.I know some aren't practicle.

IP:

coaxs
Member
posted July 22, 2002 03:40 AM            
For the record. I was connected to the server but was droped when the first game of the clan war started. Just trying to emphasize the fact thatfirst come first serve strategy doesn't always work.

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Tread Marks Ladders

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SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted July 22, 2002 04:12 AM            
Well yeah but if DNX was allowed to have 6-7 players(like I'm saying) you would have gotten in along with 2-3 more DNX.Instead of us just having 3 players represent us to play against 10 DOG and 8 BWL for example.
Then is would be a pretty even matchup rather than having one clan dominate because they have the most players that are able to get on the server before the server limit is met.Like DNX has in the past.And BWL.....And now DOG.

IP:

SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted July 22, 2002 04:17 AM            
And if you get disconnected or dropped or whatever it would be a good thing to have a couple guys on ICQ ready to jump in.Things now aren't really a representation on the skill and teamwork the clan(the purpose of a clan) has so something has to change.

IP:

Paranor
Member
posted July 22, 2002 08:13 AM            
Yes, with the new setup I'd say we can *try* bumping it up to 28-30 players. I would have to say there was a difference this time - my son & I didn't even get lag and I'm on cable. In the past we would get some type of lag, even with 24 players.

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted July 22, 2002 12:14 PM            
I had a steady 300 (which is pretty low for me) while i was on ur server para.

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Paranor
Member
posted July 22, 2002 01:26 PM            
Let's remember a few things guys - it's obvious treadmarks is growing. OK, maybe not as fast as MW4 or Diablo III but nonetheless it's growing.

Our first few clan wars had a few clans. DOG came into formation but wasn't very large. Then GA. Then AOD, BWL grew. DNX grew.

Before where it was a rarity to have the servers at 24 players might not be the case anymore.

And remember the saying, it's quality and not quantity - and I think that applies to clan wars. Otherwise, what's the point? Who's not to say that BWL and DNX don't join and beat the **** out of DOG? Why? Because we'll have more players.

EGAD! What am I saying!

So, aside from putting my two cents in and having the clan war rules modified I have one thing to add - IT'S FRIGGIN POLL TIME ON THIS SUBJECT!
http://karllois.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=treadmarks;action=display;num=1027358350

hehe

IP:

Teulk
Member
posted July 22, 2002 02:37 PM            
Sounds like I missed another good one...Will have to let the bosses figure this dilemma out...however, for two cents, I might suggest that the individual clans post thier own rotation for the DDM's, as to how many should attend. As long as it's rotational ( as well as rational) everyone would get to play at some point in time. I notice their are some who can and cannot play on certain days, and with occassions, birthdays, and holidays put in for good measure, it may help sort out who can and cannot play for certain Sundays.
Of course, this is all just preposition ( not preparation H--thank you very much), and would be for the clans to figure out amongst themselves.
Whatever works, works..until the crabbing starts again

IP:

KiLlEr
Member
posted July 22, 2002 06:12 PM            
The only solution (as these clans are getting larger), would be to set up an elimination style series of games.

For example:

Round 1:
DNX Vs. AOD
DNX Vs. BWL
DNX Vs. DOG
DNX Vs. GA
AOD Vs. BWL
AOD Vs. DOG
AOD Vs. GA
BWL Vs. DOG
BWL Vs. GA
DOG Vs. GA

Top 4 Clans (name A,B,C,D) move to round 2

A Vs. B
A Vs. C
A Vs. D
B Vs. C
B Vs. D
C Vs. D

Top 3 Clans (name a,b,c) move to round 3

a Vs. b
a Vs. c
b Vs. c

Top 2 Clans (name 1,2) move to round 4

1 Vs. 2

Winner of round 4 is the overall winner of the competition.

Total 20 Games.

Scoring would be cumulative,i.e. all games from round 1 are summed, lowest scoring clan dropped and the remaining clans and thier scores are carried over to round 2, repeat for each round. Just carry over the frags and deaths, then apply whatever calculation (F-D or F/D, average, whatever) at the end of each round. After 20 games, you have a winner. All nice and fair. The clans can elect which members show up for the games to keep the playing field even if the opposing clan has less members.

Also, as there are multiple servers that can handle these events, you can have multiple games running at the same time so long as there are enough members in a clan to show up in two places at once or just have 2 different pairs of clans face off each other at the same time.

[This message has been edited by KiLlEr (edited July 22, 2002).]

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coaxs
Member
posted July 22, 2002 06:28 PM            
Way to many games there Killer. How about just a World Cup format?

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Tread Marks Ladders

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Paranor
Member
posted July 22, 2002 06:41 PM            
I can see this debate will be lively!

First, I'm not saying that DOG shouldn't have won last week or this week. They did and they did a good job.

My concern is the servers are getting full. Why? Because we have more people playing. AND THAT'S GOOD.

So how do we resolve this so that we can have more people on? That might have been resolved with my new setup and as always, only time will tell. I'm going to bump the limit to 30.

The next problem is the accuracy/fairness/realism of the "Clan war". Initially, we had a clan war every 6-12 months. Grind & Click suggested we add it to the DDM rotation. So this is new as far as tweaking the system.

The big debate on this is it more imporant on how many people show up or is it more important that there are x number of players representing each clan?

I would say the later as the clan war is based on skill. And irregardless of what Aragon and I argue over in emails today ( ), it always has been. It's not a popularity contest as far as how many can show up when. It's a contest of skills. Of how well you play as a team. I would be interested if anyonec an point out another game that doesn't have a structured approach to team battles.

And first-come-first server doesn't make sense for a clan war. If that's the case then who's to say that a clan won't have all their players connect 1 hour early and just let their computer sit there so that they have a spot? Think people are mad now.

Killer - I see that coax posted as I'm typing this ( ) but that is a lot of games. And who's going to organize it? And what other server can host 20-24 players? DNX versus BWL or DNX versus DOG etc can get these many going.

And it's also important to note that we've had this topic before. Clan war 5 is agood example - DNX had a huge turnout. And I know an earlier clan war in 2001 BWL was large turnout. But in that case, we were excited to have 16 players - not 30 (6 couldn't connect last night).

So it may be time to formalize some setup rules for the clan DDM - so far it's been play-as-we go. ANd I think that's what this discussion is and should be about. Certainly not that DOG barked at us around 2 weeks in a row. Bit our ankles. Took a dump in our shoes. hehe - They deserved it! They didn't do anything wrong. Other than kick our arse

So again, clan battle should be based on skills and NO LONGER on how many show up. That was a problem in the past - but apparantly not anymore.

Coax, what is the "world cup" format?

EDIT: democracy rules! vote now! operators are standing by! Aragon is all in drag and will be answering "this is Debbie your Time-Life operator...how may I help you? http://karllois.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=treadmarks;action=display; num=1027358350

[This message has been edited by Paranor (edited July 22, 2002).]

IP:

KONG
Member
posted July 22, 2002 07:07 PM            
I know that I proposed this once before. Eliminating cratering and scorching from most weapons, especially machine gun and avenger would help things quite a bit with a full server. not a solution but it may help to up the # of players that could be involved in the ddm. Try it once and see if it is agreeable to all. Using flatter terrain would help as well as using maps that do not contain alot of meshes.

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Paranor
Member
posted July 22, 2002 07:48 PM            
right, that you did! but I'm clueless on how to modify the ENT files, which I assume is what you would need to modify?

also, how does a flatter terrain help? so maps like spikey take a lot of juice to draw the spikes?

i dunno what a mesh is and thus wouldn't know what map to pick (for your last point).

help would be appreciated.

IP:

KiLlEr
Member
posted July 22, 2002 08:16 PM            
hahaha. Too many games? HOw can you have too many games?

It was just an example, you can do it with less games. As for organizing, I can help out with that, not too difficult.

Otherwise, with 5 large clans, even with a 30 person limit, you can only get 6 players per clan. Then its not fair to the other members of those clans who would prolly never get a chance to play.

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