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Author Topic:   Clan War Setup
Paranor
Member
posted June 10, 2002 01:25 PM            
Ok - it will be coming up sooner than we think. I'm wondering what everyone thinks about having a pre-setup list for the clan war so that we aren't lopsided with people from one particular clan.

Now before anyone in DNX has a cow, ( ) I'm talking about a few things:

1) more organized
2) limit server to max of 24 people.
3) not 12 DNX players

We have 3-6 clans - depending on how big you put each clan.

Do we want to have 4 clans with a limit of 6 players each? I'll e-mail the IP addy and port number to the clan leaders?

thoughts?

DNX
BWL
DOG
LWA/AOD/ZE

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted June 10, 2002 01:57 PM            
AAAwwww Bummer ! lol
I jest lol sounds fine paranor

IP:

BamZipPow
Member
posted June 10, 2002 02:05 PM            
Are we allowed to masquerade as another clan if there are shortages?

How about a clan playoff matrix sort of thing? Don't know how it would be setup, but it could alleviate some of the hassles. Maybe 2 matchups per? Would be neat to see how the clans really matched up and see how well clans supported each other.

Of course this would take some serious active coordination between the clans. What do you think?

DNX vs DOG
DNX vs LWA/ZE/AOD
DNX vs BWL
DNX vs LWA/ZE/AOD
DNX vs DOG
DNX vs BWL

IP:

-DNX-Ni
Member
posted June 10, 2002 02:20 PM            
what about predetermined numbers and names for 2 different servers?? if that's possible!

eg 1st round dnx against 2 clans and bwl against 2 clans! something like that for 3 games!

oh and..u need to know if you'll be here or not!

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coaxs
Member
posted June 10, 2002 02:21 PM            
I think you guys are trying to make it to organized. The IP being blocked is only a good suggestion if you don't want non-affiliates gettin in the way. I'm sure DNX can keep their size to 6 people whoever gets on late after 6 people will be asked to leave. The other idea sounds fine to, this just seems easier.

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Tread Marks Ladders

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Teulk
Member
posted June 10, 2002 02:50 PM            
Should be interesting marshalling that kind of strategy.

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coaxs
Member
posted June 10, 2002 04:30 PM            
Shouldn't be to hard to "marshall" it, since my idea is the easiest it'll probally be the one used. Basically, DNX will tell other DNX members to leave once 6 show up for the event.

I still don't know why people would care if there is a large DNX turn out. A part of the clan wars from the very beggining was being able to rally your clan together for the clan war. Others should try harder to get their clansmen on the field or recruit more! DNX will probally accept the 6 player per clan rule this time, but this subject will need to readdressed in the future. Since 6 players from a clan is all that is allowed at a clan war why have a 20 member clan, this will limit the growth of clans in general since why recruit more people if only 6 can participate in clan events, like I said this will all need to be discussed later.

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Tread Marks Ladders

[This message has been edited by coaxs (edited June 10, 2002).]

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666
Member
posted June 10, 2002 05:04 PM            
I say 1st come...1st served...You snooze you lose...why should a clan be penalized just because it has it's act together and gets more members there than the other clans... ...some more thought needs to be given to this...

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Play Hard...Play Fair...See You Online

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Paranor
Member
posted June 10, 2002 05:07 PM            
why later - you bring up good points coax!

problem is I sincerely thing the TM engine can only handle 24 players. Anyone else care to verify/deny?

I have a T-1 and graph it. After 24 players playing, I'm using 50% of the T-1. It's running full duplex so it's 600kbs in and 600 kbs out. And nobody is here on sunday's.

So the limit is from the point of equality of the clan match as opposed to havein "24 players" only. If I can support 100 I would!

good ideas so far - keep em coming guys/gals ( )

IP:

666
Member
posted June 10, 2002 05:49 PM            
I just counted how many were at the last clan match...the most was 21 players in the 1st match. I think limiting is a none issue. I say let all come who want to...then if people exceed the max then address the problem...until then...

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Play Hard...Play Fair...See You Online

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ARAGON
Member
posted June 10, 2002 08:10 PM            
I agree with Coax; just because the members of a clan make an effort to show up, they shouldn't be penalized.

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IP:

Irascible
Member
posted June 10, 2002 08:23 PM            
Unfortunately I must somewhat, sort of, kind of agree with the dEVIL... though he didn't make me do it (the Devil, that is). LWA won once primarily because they had a big turn out. Turn out has no doubt helped on other occasions for other clans. To change the rules now is unfair, especially since DNX just got their first win and obviously expects more.

On a related note, it wasn't so long ago (a couple months maybe) that Dreamer encouraged BWL members to relax on the recruiting (those weren't his exact words, but that was the message). He wanted more than just DNX and BWL to thrive. So I encourage DNX to not recruit just anything that can fog a mirror .

Otherwise, if it is the intention of DNX to recruit every passable player that shows up then I'd like to know. It will remove what little meaning the clan rivalry had for me. I recall a time when it seemed like it was a privilage to join a clan. Now everyone seems desperate. I much preferred it the other way.

And if that don't convince you, then I'm sure you realize that an extended winning streak based on having twice the numbers will eventually become meaningless.
(BTW, I realize Matrix has already capitulated to Par's idea. But I would much prefer a voluntary system over a forced one.)

Of course, none of my comments address the server being overloaded. That's something else entirely.

IP:

=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted June 10, 2002 09:16 PM            
If were talking more about server capacities then blanced teams is fairer, but like the romans said.... screw em we have more.

I wont be attending because my ping averaged 900 in the last setup.

To do a knockout vs where every clan plays every other clan would take a full day to acomplish properly at 30 mins per game - 3 or 4 games is sensible but you can only do what the server will take..... "a pint cannot hold a quart mr pizer, but the pint is doing the best it can - V.I.N.Cent (Walt disney's Black Hole)

Of course it's all down to the server host, but i say first come first serve - set a launch time for the server activation - and make sure your ppl attend - those who dont get on loose out. Those who play miss the next game and give others a chance - this way most ppl will get to play.

IP:

Paranor
Member
posted June 10, 2002 11:00 PM            
everyone has good points - except aragon. this one or anyting he has made in the past or future.

how fun and fair is it when one particular clan is outnumbering everyone else. Sure, there are some merits in the leader ra-rahing his members to the battle field but I guess I figured the clan war is the best of clan skill - not how many show up.

thoughts on that.

IP:

666
Member
posted June 10, 2002 11:50 PM            
What does it cost to rent a T2 or T3 line for 2 hours...I'll pony up some money. Or what if we got another T1 server to host 1/2 of the match at the same time. Just different approaches...

Paranor and Aragon...please kiss and makeup...I hate seeing bros fight...

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Play Hard...Play Fair...See You Online

IP:

Irascible
Member
posted June 10, 2002 11:51 PM            
Par,
It's not fun at all... for those of us on the non-dominating clan.
As far as fairness, it's never been "fair" when one clan had way more than another. But that's just been a fact of life. Why should it change now?
(Though I must admit, I don't know that having twice as many players as another clan has ever been the case. That's probably not going to happen next time though. We'll probably have Melon, Sailor and some others next time.)

The point I want YOU to address is this:
All the rankings (DDM, clan or otherwise) are like an ongoing boxing match. All rounds within a match have the same rules. To change the rules within a match to favor a particular player would be unfair... unless both players agree. That's why, for example, last Sunday's DDM wasn't ranked. Having CE changes the rules, and would make it unfair if the winning player won with it.

Makes sense, no?

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Teulk
Member
posted June 11, 2002 01:15 AM            
I'm sure this can be taken care of civilly ( as I know it will), and the idea is to play.
BTW, "marshalling" is not a dictatorial term in this particular sense, " reffing" just seemed to irregular at this juncture. Anyhow, I'ms ure the point is taken, and I just want to see this all taken care of WITHOUT any grievences being created.
HAPPY thoughts everyone, and we'll all fly.

IP:

Irascible
Member
posted June 11, 2002 01:40 AM            
"I just want to see this all taken care of WITHOUT any grievences being created.

LOL Teulk! Are we not putting enough happy faces in there? I know it's hard to believe, but not everything I say is in anger... just most.

IP:

=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted June 11, 2002 02:17 AM            
Beige....

IP:

Karldar
Member
posted June 11, 2002 08:18 AM            
Chartreuse...

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Paranor
Member
posted June 11, 2002 09:24 AM            
666 - I have a T-1 and it's 50% utilized when we play with 24 people. 24 people is the limit before people really start bitching, I mean commenting ( ) on lag.

It's running on a Pentium 4 with nothing else so that's why I'm wondering if it's the gaming engine itself chokes on 20-24 players.

You can't rent a T-1 but, hehe, I might be upgrading our T-1 into a 10Mbs ethernet. Can you say "cha-ching"? At that point maybe we'll find out more on what the lagginess is.

Unless the 3KBs settings on the server is not thick enough for the gaming engine to send updates to the dial-up users?

IP:

666
Member
posted June 11, 2002 12:50 PM            
Thanks for striagthten me out Paranor...much appreciated...Harmless was checking with his local IP to see if they would host part of the DDM because they host a Quake game...its a long shot...but something worth considering...maybe...

IP:

Teulk
Member
posted June 11, 2002 01:37 PM            
Ras, happy faces are great!!! Keep em comin'.

IP:

SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted June 12, 2002 04:15 AM            
Thats not a good idea at all.Most people join a clan to get to fight other clans and now you are saying we have to pick 6 to come and do that and the rest can't come?Thats not right.
Its mostly DNX vs BWL right now so we can surely fit both of us on the server and let the rest fend for themselves.When our actives show up we are pretty much running neck to neck with each other.We may have numbers but they aren't all eager and willing.So maybe BWL needs to make sure all of their players gets the word and make a effort to show like DNX does?And practicing together dosen't hurt either,muhahahhahahaahhahhahahahahhaha Not cool at all to tell some of our players they can't come and earn their spot in the clan.
And you are saying 24 is near the max for the server but I think I read somewhere that we didn't have more than 24 last time.So if you are afraid of getting a traffic jam on the server then the most logical thing to do is to tell one of the smaller less active clans to sit this one out.

IP:

Paranor
Member
posted June 12, 2002 07:52 AM            
You are confusing me super!

>>>Thats not a good idea at all.Most people
>>>join a clan to get to fight other clans
>>>and now you are saying we have to pick 6
>>>to come and do that and the rest can't
>>>come?Thats not right.

then:

>>>...afraid of getting a traffic jam on
>>>the server then the most logical thing
>>>to do is to tell one of the smaller less
>>>active clans to sit this one out.

It's not a traffic issue! It's the gaming engine I'm worried about! I have 50% of my T-1 left!

CONFUSION!

My points are:

1) The highest I've ever allowed on the server is 24. It has happened - NOT FOR CLAN WARS. Anything in the 20-24 range sucks for everyone. Mostly for dial-up.

2) What's the point in having a clan war if 50% of the people on it are the same clan? Yes it's great you have a good turnout but what happens when it gets to the point of CLAN X having soo many people that 75% of them are on? We are supposed to be impressed that you rallied that many? I don't think so!

3) The bragging rights should be on what clan worked great together to beat the other clans. Not how many outnumbered whom.

Am I making sense now?


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-Everyone needs belief in something. I believe I'll play another map.
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BWL-Paranor, BWL-Tiger, DNX-Tiggs and D.O.G.-Aragon.
Family. Redefined.
DDM Pics, schedule and other here!

[This message has been edited by Paranor (edited June 12, 2002).]

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