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Author Topic:   Battlefield Manners: Frags that you should not do!
666
Member
posted May 06, 2002 10:43 PM            
Yes, there are some frags that you should refrain from doing at TM. The reason why I know of them is because I have done everyone of them and regretted it later. I am hoping that others will learn from my bad manners especially the newbies. I am by no means the authority on “Frags that you should not do” …so…please…add to the list.

Green Frag: This is when you frag your own teammate. Remember Green is GOOD. Don’t piss off your teammates.

Parked Frag: The tank is doing nothing and you kill it. Not much of a challenge. It usually means that the person had to briefly leave. For me, it means that the kids need some attention.

Chat Frag: The tank is not moving and there is a gray chat name over the tank and you kill it. It’s a cheap shot….the person was busy typing. [Sorry SuperUnknown for doing that to you yesterday.]

Stolen Frag: A teammate is about to finish off a tank and you take the frag away from them. [Again Sorry Coax and Irascible for doing that to you both recently.]

Spawn Frag: A tank spawns on top of you. You back away and kill it before it has a chance to defend itself. This is a very big deal on the battle field where emotions run high. The best way to avoid someone spawning on you is to just grab your weapon/missile and go. Don’t hang at spawn site.

[See the link below for my testimonial confession that was quite funny. It called, I have seen the light, I will no longer spawn frag. /forums/archive/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002234.html ]

Honorable Frag: I doubt that I will ever see this again. Here's what happened...I had the shadow and was about to kill SuperUnknown. Low and behold a tank spawn nearby. I pulled away to stop from killing the spawn. Sup let the spawn equip to defend itself, then kills it. Then he goes up the hill and let me kill him. Yes, Sup is a very honorable player.

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kv
Member
posted May 06, 2002 10:57 PM            
I still don't understand some of these "don't do this" rules.

Spawnfrag: if i'm in the middle of a battle, and someone spawns near me, I will turn and shoot them. They represent a new threat to my tank, and I will do my best to remove that threat.

Stolen frags: If I see a group of tanks fighting, and I have a chance of making a kill, heck, even if I don't, I will charge head on into that group and shoot anyone who gets in my way. If I "steal a frag", then so be it.

My point is, with the exception of the DDMs, I was under the impression that we played this game for _fun_ and were above these kinds of trivial rules. When I play online, I expect to be killed, and enjoy it when it happens.

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Irascible
Member
posted May 06, 2002 11:14 PM            
Parked frag: Sometimes you have to travel a fair distance to chase down a red dot. Then you see it as parked. That person just wasted my time, time I could have spent chasing down a real opponent. So I take the frag.

I appreciate the spirit of what you're saying devil. I'm just pointing out situations where it's not always cut and dry.

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guido 1
Member
posted May 06, 2002 11:29 PM         
Good luck on the frag thing ... if it's red ... It's dead lol .

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If you can't run with the big [D.O.G.]'S .... stay on the porch hehe ... Guido the mercy killer .... FRAG ON .....

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666
Member
posted May 07, 2002 01:05 AM            
kv...either did I...I just thought kill or be killed..it's just a game. But you know what...there can be a wrong or right way of even playing online. You should click on the link above...it might change your mind about spawn fragging. I know it changed my mind. About stolen frags...its regarding your team mates not another enemy. Have fun...play hard

My mistake, the honorable is something you should do..

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Irascible
Member
posted May 07, 2002 01:27 AM            
The devil lecturing on right and wrong... now I've seen everything... That's almost as bad as Guido talking about vulgarity... LOL!

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SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted May 07, 2002 04:33 AM            
Good code of ethics but not everyone is going to repect them.If you do live by this code then you have my respect and I'm sure others.Ras does have a point though and its not always right or wrong in every situation.I was telling someone tonight that if I start chatting when you are attacking me then go for it.It would be a different situation if I were on a hill far away from the battle and someone drives all the way to me and frags me while I'm chatting.
I'm guilty of all of them so I'm not as honorible as you think
I frag someone who is sitting still if I waste ammo on them because I didn't notice they were away.
I'm sure I steal frags from team mates but not on purspose to cheat them.But they have just as much of a chance to frag them as I do .Theres not much you can do to prevent that.Every red dot is a potential frag.
I do try to play fair and I don't hit below the belt just to get a frag though.If you feel like you accomplished something by fragging someone who is chatting or just spawned with their back to you then I guess you don't play with a conscience.I like to feel as though that I EARNED the frag.Hey...you could go deer hunting with a spotlight and a 50 caliber machine gun but where is the sport in that?

[This message has been edited by SuperUnknown (edited May 07, 2002).]

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Random Chaos
Member
posted May 07, 2002 08:53 AM            
Parked frag: Generally bad, but I've been killed for being nice by the 3rd tank that joins the battle between an inactive and me. Nice isn't always feasible...

Chat frag: First, if you are about to kill and they enter chat...their fault! Second, if someone else comes in and is shooting htem and you got their first, finish them so the idiot that joined 2nd doesn't get the frag. Third, there is no problem in lining up to get the kill while they are chatting

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Random Chaos
Member
posted May 07, 2002 08:57 AM            
Spawn frag: Nice idea...except when the spawn shoots back before equiping! My general method is back away at full speed and let the spawner go the other direction...we'll face but it will be fair instead. When I spawn, I will always shoot nearby tanks with the 120...I guess I'm suicidal or such . Spawn frags are a good way to get the whole TM community against you though...

Stolen frags: If the team is working together, does it really matter? Both will steal equal numbers from the other...

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted May 07, 2002 09:32 AM            
I did just that last night RC, supes appeard right on me and we both backed off at speed with or without the weapon - good sportsmanship is what its about - blatant swearing will just drive tempers up - good sportsmanship and codes of honour keep the game fun and enjoyable.

I was in a game 3 days ago under alias to see if I would get hit on as much (i didnt lol ) - but I was continually spawnfragged - my blood was boiling so I did the only thing necessary - said nothing and dropped the game.

Btw this kinda thing happens in wolfenstein too... The Axis came onto the beach slashing up the Allies spawnpoint, so I made my way to the Axis spawnpoint and proceeded to continuously despatch them with grenedes and flamers oh how the text flowed - point of the matter is if you dont like it done to you, dont do it to others.

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JeepChick
Member
posted May 07, 2002 11:15 AM            
What is a spawn? If I have spawn fragged someone, I am sorry, but I don't know what that is. (I think I know what it is, but I just want some clarification)

Let me share a little bit of my wisdom. A code of ethics on the battlefield is not only the right thing to do, but will make your game live much longer. Tanny had no such ethics and the community evolved into a bunch of hackers and bad mouths. Of course there were a lot of honorable players too, but the game had been over run by the others.

If you continue to keep a high standard and teach all that are new those standards, people will stay a long time...

JC

[This message has been edited by JeepChick (edited May 07, 2002).]

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Random Chaos
Member
posted May 07, 2002 11:37 AM            
If the tank appears in the air in front of you (or on the radar) from no where, they have just spawned...

Don't kill them until they get a weapon at the very least...unless they start shooting...

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted May 07, 2002 11:47 AM            
Dont know about tanny, but in tm a tank will spawn "appear" above a weapon or upgrade pickup.... on occasion 2 will appear at the same point, or just as you get there - point is to give the player that has just appeared a chance to defend themselves.

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Grind_and_Click
Member
posted May 07, 2002 11:50 AM            
thow art grindalot of the round table

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peeeto
Member
posted May 07, 2002 11:56 AM         
spawn fragging: if i have the presence of mind, i will back off & not shoot - unless they start shooting first or i am totally suprised. HOWEVER, my 1st priority while playing is to stay alive if i'm in flames & a potential danger appears in front of me, i will try to kill it! (LOL - "if it's red, it's dead" love it, guido!). also, if someone spawns at a point & then hangs out just to get a weapon or a better one, i consider them "free for the taking", as it were... give 'em a couple of seconds to get their feet, then they're free game.

chat fragging: bad, bad manners IMO. i don't do it, unless the devil gets into me & i'm just playing around. i've never had someone start chatting during a chase to save themselves, but anyone that does that deserves to get fragged!

frag stealing: hmmm... never thought about that one much... i know that i will always go for enemies engaged with whoever - gives the advantage of suprise while they're distracted. IMO, it's just part of the game... again, if it's red, it's dead!!! however, if any particular teammate asks that i refrain from targeting their (potential) kill, i will comply.

bottom line - it's a game please don't take anything personally. if someone is bothering you, ask them (nicely) to stop doing whatever. if they don't, then ignore them. just "do unto others..." and you should be OK!

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JeepChick
Member
posted May 07, 2002 12:43 PM            
Got ya! That is what I thought spawning was, just wanted to make sure. As all of you know that have played with me so far, I just shoot at anything and everything (except the green names, I know they are my team) But don't fear, I don't hit much :-)

As far as all the rest of the Don't Do It Frags...

Chat Frags, if you are sitting around chatting and don't expect to be killed, you are playing the wrong types of games? No one likes to chat more than me, but if I am sitting to chat and I get killed, sucks to be me. Maybe as I play more I will see that faint gray someone is chatting thingy.

Green Frags... why would you WANT to kill your teammate??

Park Frags... again, if you just park your tank on the battle field and leave it, expect to get killed? Maybe let the whole arena know you are away and then the nicer folks might leave you, but it is hard in the "heat of battle" to remember who is away and for what. And besides, what if you are just waiting for a Nuke to appear ;-P

Stolen Frags... ahhh, one of my favorite subjects! In tanny it is lovingly known as "vulching" IMHO, this game is too fast paced and crazy to really think about wether someone is close to killing someone or not. By the time you look at the situation, assess it and then decide yes I can shoot, you are DEAD. (I will try not to vulch, but no promises)

Spawn Frags... no promises there either but I will give it my best effort not to do this.

I will always try to play as honorable as I can. Tanny had last all honor and without my wonderful team mates I would have left the game a long time ago. I now have some guidelines to follow about what you guys expect, that certainly makes it easier for me.

JC

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Kevlar
Member
posted May 07, 2002 02:01 PM            
Spawn fragging is not really anything you can put definite "I will" or "I won't".

I have been playing long enough to know who will spawn frag and who won't.
And there are those that I will spawn frag because they do it to me every time.
This falls under that do unto others thing above. But for normal players I never spawn frag.

You have to love the battle more than the kill to know what I am talking about. And I do so love the battle. There are certain ppl who I know I never have to worry about this issue.

If certain ppl land in front of me, I back away, because they have done the same thing for me many times. Par, Ni, Peeeto, Neo, Nemzad, Supe, Coax just to name a few, who play often. They know what I am talking about.

I would hate to kill one of these guys before they hit the ground because I would spoil my own enjoyment of the game. And the enjoyment for me is the battle. And these guys know how to battle. That's why I play the game. And there is a large group of TM players who feel the same way and they are usually the ones who, like me, only spawn frag the spawn fraggers.

It's not so much a thing of honor and goodie two shoes as some have said in the past. It about playing and getting a little experience behind you and engaging in a 3 minute battle where each person has expended hundreds of rounds, swarmers, machine guns and MRL's flying everywhere and each person has managed to duck and evade all but a few shots, with both of you smoking and on fire, till one lands the killing blow. That's the part of the game I like. Or you could just sit at a spawn point if your really into excitement.

Man I'm gonna go jump on a server now...

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MexIndian
Member
posted May 07, 2002 03:02 PM            
yah yah yah..... blah blah blah.....

Take cheap shots if you will... don't if you think it's cheap.

I think that about covers it.

I won't be cheap, but if you're cheap to me, I'll pay you back. And don't suicide if someone's about to kill you.....nobody believes that: "My tank was upside down and there were no tanks within 10 miles and I had no weapons and I got a finger twitch and I was lagging" nonsense.

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If I were you and you were me and I fragged you whose score would go up?

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-DNX-Ni
Member
posted May 07, 2002 03:23 PM            
I feel there is sway in those ruels 666! If someone's chatting in the middle of a heated chase or skirmish, they're fragged.

If, for some reason u and a tank that isn't moving are far away from anyone else and you're not sure whcih was to go to get back into the frey, then in order for the pointer to turn to the nearest tank, the stagnant tank shall be fragged.

If a tank is spawning everyone, then they shall be spawnkilled by me, but I do apoligise to Supe for a couple of times I've spawned and shot him.. the reason is I spawn and am usually shot if there are 3-4 tanks surrounding, therefore instinct makes me shoot them just to get some room... it's not intensionally shooting for a frag though.

A good rule however that is solid is your 'stolen frag' as it's unfair to take someone else's frag, especially if they're on your team, BUT... if it's for the team and all frags count eg a Clan battel then the person with the best shot should be allowed to finished that particular tank off!

Which leads me onto this Team Scoring for Clan battles! Maybe there is a way of taking individual ppoint scoring off and maye one score for that team which means that people are less inclined to build up their own tally and act unfairly!

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The Ahn-NI-hilator

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KiLlEr
Member
posted May 07, 2002 03:45 PM            
I agree with Ni. If your a team, you fight as a team. Individual frag count makes no sense then.

But I disagree on "stolen frags" being a solid rule because if your the odd man out, technically, you won't have someone to pair off with. What do you do then? take a number? hahahaha. "Now fragging number 32? 32? okay, 33? do we have 34? Ah! COME HERE! What will it be today? MRLs or Flamethrower? **BLAM**"

However, when I do see a skirmish, and there is no one else around, I head straight at the stronger tank(or at least try to) in the pair. Perhapse thats the right thing to do in that case? or do I go for a ride in the country side?

[This message has been edited by KiLlEr (edited May 07, 2002).]

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BamZipPow
Member
posted May 07, 2002 04:01 PM            
Yes, Ni...there is!

It's the DisableFrags command. DisableFrags = 1

Hmmm...it doesn't seem to work. Tried putting it in the dedicated.cfg file--no go.

Tried putting it in the map config string--no go.
[edit]Doh...must click the box in TMapper for that string to be active! So it does work but it turns off ALL frags and only counts deaths! So I guess the answer is you can't turn off the individual frag count and still have it count for the team.[/edit]

[This message has been edited by BamZipPow (edited May 07, 2002).]

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Vlad
Member
posted May 07, 2002 04:14 PM            
Bleaurgh... and the whining continues...

I've posted my own stances on some issues here a ton of times, but here we go again.

Parked Frag: If someone really wants to be left alone, they can just give an "afk" to the server, hold down the forward key, hit T and leave the comp. Their tank will drive into the wild blue yonder, and they won't have to worry about losing a frag. When they want to come back, they can either Death Wish or change teams back and forth. I'm not going to not shoot at someone sitting in the middle of a battle just because they're standing still. Heck, how do I know they're not just playing possum to take advantage of the "honorable" players? If it's red, it's dead.

Chat Frag: It's the responsibility of the person chatting to either do it when there's no tanks around, and not to enter an entire novel while chatting. Keep an eye on your radar while your chatting. If I'm in the middle of a sentence, and I see a red dot coming straight at me on the radar, I'll either end my sentence with a "...", cancel the chat, or just take the hit. Not only that, but if you absolutely MUST start chatting in the middile of a firefight, don't start bitching when someone kills you. It's not as if you didn't know that there were other tanks around you.. you were exchanging fire with them no less than 5 seconds ago.

Stolen Frag: You know, I always thought that helping your teammates would be encouraged or something. If I see a green and red dot together on the radar, I'll go over there and see if I can help my teammate out. Nothing is certain in Treadmarks, and a battle that is going in the favor of your teammate can really swing the other way with a single missed shot, or a lucky weapon grab by their target. Instead of saying "waaah, waaah, you stole my frag", how about "Hey, thanks for the assist"?

Spawn Frag: Ugh. I'm fairly sure that my position on this is well known, but people tend to ignore my words, so I'll repeat it here:

If your represented by a red dot on the radar, I'm probably gonna shoot at you.

See, nice and simple. I'm not going to wonder about if someone feels like spawn fragging today or not for every single tank that spawns by me. A LOT of people are treating spawn fragging as if other players are going to the spawn points just to hunt fresh spawns. Just to let everybody in on a little secret: most maps have around twice as many spawn points as there are players, if not more. If someone did want to hang around a spawn point and just hit new spawns, they wouldn't exactly be raking in the frags.

Another thing that everybody should keep in mind is that, most of the time, you spawn ON A WEAPON. This ain't Quake, where if you don't have the rocket launcher, you're just meat to the rest of the players on the server. Practically every weapon in Treadmarks can beat any other, given the right situation, and good enough aim. As soon as you spawn, you should be looking at your radar, taking stock of the situation around you. If you see a red dot, be prepared for a fight.

Basically, in most cases, I feel that unwritten rules in games are a huge waste of time, and end up making the game less fun. The only exception in Treadmarks is the whole "no reloading the shadow" thing, simply because the shadow is so undeniably cheap.

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=DNX= Tiggs
Member
posted May 07, 2002 04:58 PM            
Because everyone is throwing in their 2 cents worth..so will I. Everyone has a different style of playing. I am Mr. Nice guy durning the week (unless I am taking cheap shots at my brothers..hehe) but durning a Ranked DDM when every frag counts, there is no holding back. Seems that durning a DDM everyone one is playing a little on the dirty side. Spawn fragging, chat fragging, reverse spawn fragging. You name it, its being done. Other than DDM's I play for fun and I try to play without pissing anyone off.

On another note. JeepChick, I hate to say it but when it comes to chatting durning a game, Golden Ant has you beat hands down.

Am I right on this one guys?

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"I see fragged people...they're everywhere...they walk around like everyone else...they don't even know that they're fragged."
*************************
DNX-Tiggs, D.O.G - Aragon, BWL-Paranor and BWL-Tiger.
Family. Redefined.


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Kevlar
Member
posted May 07, 2002 05:50 PM            
I agree with you Tiggs, DDM's are a different sort. I was referring above to mainly normal game play. When you have 20 people on one server all bets are pretty much off. The "battle" is more pure chaos.


And Gold Ant is the only player I have ever seen sucessfully drive the Mite during CTF and we won because of it. He captured 3 or 4 flags with that thing. And it's armor is almost non-existant. You can sneeze on it and it blows up. All the while he was chatting away and bouncing around. He must type about 200 words a minute.


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-DNX-Ni
Member
posted May 07, 2002 06:56 PM            
*offers a \/****m to everyone* some good stuff! j/k

Yeah Tiggs...DDM there tends to be less chatting anyway unless it's to complement a good shot or bitch about someone spawn-fragging, but every frag counts! *falls comatose*

I see the v-word is considered a no-no! lol

[This message has been edited by -DNX-Ni (edited May 07, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by -DNX-Ni (edited May 07, 2002).]

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