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Author Topic:   Introducing the Skill Ladder! A different approach to DDM glory
coax
Administrator
posted April 20, 2002 03:40 PM            
As many in the community have pointed out frags are not the only thing that matters in a DDM. Skill is an important aspect too. To that end a skill ladder has been developed you can check it out at my website. This will encourage some players to play more carefully and not all out mayhem. Perhaps two different stles of play will develop within the DDM itself. Those going for all out DDM frag victory. And those who will snipe and do anything to refraim from dying.

Also those who place on the skill ladder and also the DDM ladder itself deserve special recognition and therfore will have a little medal next to their name on the DDM ladder saying they also got on the skill ladder. So perhaps players will be specially interested on working on their skill during the DDM so that the high fraggers won't be able to get their medals. Check out the setup, and please give me some feedback.

If this is successful perhaps a "Deadliness" and/or "Aggressiveness" ladder will be tried out. At any rate this is a probational idea and if not successful will be terminated at the end of the Spring 2002 DDM tournament series.

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Tread Marks Ladders


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Irascible
Member
posted April 20, 2002 03:53 PM            
Very cool Coax... and NOT because I placed!!! Frankly I'm too old a dog (not D.O.G.!) to be taught new tricks. So it's mayhem for me. But it will be good for the "skilled" ones. Though hasn't Par and Matrix both implemented something along those lines? Also, if you keep adding ladders etc. you're going to have to quit school and maintain statistics full time! Thanks for the effort.

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coax
Administrator
posted April 20, 2002 04:02 PM            
LOL, I just realized the system punishes high fraggers. If anyone cares the new system will be Skill = Your_Frags/(Your_frags + Your_Deaths). A skill of .5 means you kill as often as you die.

I'll fix it later tonight, and I'll put a note in this thread when I do. I just hate it when I find a bug after I just finished promoting it.

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Tread Marks Ladders


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coax
Administrator
posted April 20, 2002 04:22 PM            
Arrrrrrgggg... I had gotten the revised system from Weatherman's site. But on close inspection it rewards high fraggers and those most aggressive too much in my opinion. I think I'll just go for normal (frags-deaths) as the best method of measuring skill. Unless someone has a better idea.

In the frags-deaths. The people who placed in the ladder are actually the exact same people and in their corresponding rank too. Lol, all this trouble and I end up at the same result anways

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Tread Marks Ladders


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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted April 20, 2002 10:22 PM            
"hasn't Par and Matrix both implemented something along those lines?"

- actually i stopped updating the dmf one about 4 days after i started it, mainly cos i saw weatherman and par had started one - if theres more than 1 common ladder nobody knows whos where !

Im just sticking with the inner clan ladder with nemzad now. Not much is happening with the dmf site since nobody actually sends anything in ... news, screens or otherwise and since other sites are doing such a great job at supporting tm and tm files with bandwidth and space i dont have, im considering taking dmf offline and just keeping the clan site going (with the exception of the photo album).

Last 2 events were a disaster inc competitions that nobody enters ... so thats pretty much that down the pan too. Theres a distinct lack of interest and feedback generally for anyones work, and ive never been able to fathom the reason why !

Guess i should stick to just playing the game .... considering a few options right now.

[This message has been edited by =DNX= Matrix (edited April 20, 2002).]

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coax
Administrator
posted April 20, 2002 10:48 PM            
Sorry Matrix, we are sickenly apathetic. I was looking over the DMF yesterday and was saying this would be the center of Tread Marks universe if only there were more players. Right now most things that need to get done can be done through the Tread Marks bboard. With growth that will no longer be possible.

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Tread Marks Ladders


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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted April 20, 2002 11:38 PM            
I hear ya coax man, i know the reasons .. the news is scoured from here so anyone reading this board gets the news anyway.

Perhaps ill do occasional updates till the ps2 version is out and perhaps 161 and tm2. Just maybe a case of waiting... tho it is a tad frustrating.

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coax
Administrator
posted April 22, 2002 04:50 AM            
Alright, I finished updating the ladder with it's new system. Just basic frags-deaths.

Already got some interesting results from DDM29. Sailor, Aragon, Ni took home the skill medals. And Aragon was the only lucky fellow to place in both the DDM ladder and the skill ladder.

Although Irascible, Ferdi, Kevlar, Grind and Click, King John 1st, Ping of Death all had higher frags-death. They either did not play all 3 games or did not have the minimum 10 encounters per game to place on the ladder. Unfortunately the system needs to be se up like that so the skill ladder is a true measure of overall skill and not from single games.

And of course the DDM ladder has been updated, and beware Neo and Super, because now Ras is right on your tails

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Tread Marks Ladders


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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted April 22, 2002 07:58 AM            
the key is the % ratio - highest ratio stays at the top of the ladder - keep up with that and the you find the more constant skilled ppl instead of occasional lucky ones stay at the top - this is why this method is so widely used.

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Paranor
Member
posted April 22, 2002 08:06 AM            
As soon as coax said he's going to do something - pffft! I'll stop and save me some time.

is it a sad state of affairs if Skan is *still* in the top 7?

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-DNX-Ni
Member
posted April 22, 2002 08:39 AM            
didn't I come 3rd in the last game coax?? hmmhmmm at last..recognisiton!! LOL *cheers*

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Neo
Member
posted April 22, 2002 09:55 AM            
2 ranked DDMs in a row?

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Grind_and_Click
Member
posted April 22, 2002 10:55 AM            
man!!! *kiks oneself* i cuda won!!! greweyyarrgg

i knew the skill ladder was my beast
even tho i came 12th <=/, i mean 12 is realy quite terrable , yes even for me i ussualy come in 5th as standard hah,
so i guess i gota figure this skill ladder more then

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted April 22, 2002 11:06 AM            
If youre counting by kills minus deaths, where you place on the tm scoreboard s meaning less - if you kill 5 ppl and have no deaths you have 100% skill in that game - the top person with say 50 kills and 40 deaths has 20% skill level.

Its no good going gung ho for frags if the deaths matter too. kills minus deaths method makes you think about what you are doing and teaches more about strategy.

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guido 1
Member
posted April 22, 2002 11:32 AM         
so when did yesterday's DDM become ranked ??? sorta last minute wasn't it ???? from a cancelled storm DDM to ranked , without any mention that i know of . What a bunch of BULL . BTW the server was near impossible to play on , might have been ok for high band width , but was hell for dialup . maybe we should use LDA server , and take screen shots if play would be better for us dialup players !!! i really don't want to be cannon fodder for a laggy server . It just makes those with dsl or cable look better than is the case .

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If you can't run with the big [D.O.G.]'S .... stay on the porch hehe ... Guido the mercy killer .... FRAG ON .....

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wolfman
Member
posted April 22, 2002 11:36 AM            
Dude - notice given out on the 19th with the thread re: No STORM this Sunday. Short notice yes it was lol

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wolfman
Member
posted April 22, 2002 11:41 AM            
I just need to vent a little, or alot, lol We need to come up with a way to keep track of the alt k Deathwish during DDM. During the match last night just as I had the other tank in flames and crawling and chasing - within eye site and fairly close - not on the other side of the map - the person Deathwishes. Pissed me off to an extent since it was one of the top players. Whooooooofffffffff Now I feel better. lol Just wanted to share

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Paranor
Member
posted April 22, 2002 11:57 AM            
Hey Guido:

1) as already pointed out it was mentioned. a little late? maybe. but everyone else is willing to wait to play the game with the guy who spent hours & hours writing it. but of course, you'd rather bitch about it.
2) did it ever occurr to you that it might be your end that's laggy? no, of course not because you'd rather bitch about it. instead, do a "tracert 205.213.202.18" and that will give you some type of hint where the bottleneck might be. post it here or shoot me an e-mail, I'll help. if it is on my end, oh well. I can't do much about it. I run the server on a Pentium 4, 512MB RAM using a T-1 that's only using 500KB of 1.2Mbs during the game. Maybe TM engine can't handle a lot of people?
3) LDA server can't handle a lot of people - we've already discovered that.
4) superunkown was on dialup and was still in the top 7 DDM rank so i guess you just suck playing.
5) why not play during the euro-ddm where there are less people but enough to keep you on your toes?
6) get another job, buy a business class cable modem or DSL and host your own server.

your friend,
Paranor

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-DNX-Ni
Member
posted April 22, 2002 12:20 PM            
Guido, I'm on 56k ... in Britain ... with anormal 500 ping and I came 3rd in the last one plus somehow got onto the skill ladder! It wasn't so bad for dial-ups!

Plus every Sunday is ranked and you should know that!

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coax
Administrator
posted April 22, 2002 12:28 PM            
Ni now gets his medal too. If anyone has some small medal pics please send them over too.

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Tread Marks Ladders


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Paranor
Member
posted April 22, 2002 01:50 PM            
Guido, I hope you know I'm just harassing you in semi-good fun. However, i prolly can be b***h slapped for changing a schedule that the purpose of was to keep one. But, I claim "executive powers" on that one.

Ni, not every sunday is ranked. Only stock DDM's and clan DDM's are ranked. Other games are for the enjoyment of the modded map/modded weapon/STORM, etc.

Does anyone have pics of the ddm yesterday? I couldn't make it.

And worse yet, might not make it next sunday for the STORM game. I'll be at a LAN party saturday/sunday and might be sleeping.

[This message has been edited by Paranor (edited April 22, 2002).]

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King John 1st
Member
posted April 22, 2002 02:46 PM            
Not wishing to open a can of worms here but....

Isn't the Frags Minus Deaths method of scoring the norm on games with a five or ten second invulnerablity spawn after dying? While happy to win a ranked DDM for the first time ( again cos most of the top players either sat it out or didn't show ) it doesn't quite seem a 100% fair way of showing skill.
Like, after being 'Spawnfragged' 11 times in a game and then being acciddently fragged by your own team-mates in a blaze of MRL's in their efferts to secure that
'long-chased-after-frag-before-someone-else-gets-it-frag' can really effect your skill
rating.
I mean, as a couple of examples, the best player at the moment and one of the hardest to beat is Irascible, and to win games of all types consistantly takes real skill at the game, but he doesn't make it to a ladder showing "Skill", and despite being a deadshot with the 120mm canon Grind & Click's frequent dialup lag isn't going to get him many top places as it makes him kinda easier to frag when it's happening and severely effecting his "Skill" rating ( I've drove under him at times as he hangs in the air, but I could have waited for a definate frag ) sort of belies his skills too.
A "Skills" ladder is a great idea, but frag minus deaths dosen't really show you who's
skilled at the game, just who fared better in that game comparativly.
Now this is what I'm getting at....Surely there's enough people here that can argue it out over a few days and come up with a good way to show skill in the game? sort of like the way the DDM times got sorted and the types of DDM's played, they all got heated but still got sorted in the end and great fun was had by all .

Plus it does kind of penalize the "Capt Flashhearts" and the "smoke me a Kipper I'll be home for breakfast" ( what a guy ) approach as your gonna come away damaged sometime.
Maybe working a stats page from the logs instead of screenshots or some unthought of before way.... or isn't there a better way?

Just a thought.

That's all

!!!! Did I say all that out loud?

[This message has been edited by King John 1st (edited April 22, 2002).]

IP:

coax
Administrator
posted April 22, 2002 03:10 PM            
Edit: Guess I came off to strong, sorry.

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Tread Marks Ladders


[This message has been edited by coax (edited April 22, 2002).]

IP:

SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted April 22, 2002 03:26 PM            
And nobody noticed coax's nice Flash he added to his site

IP:

King John 1st
Member
posted April 22, 2002 03:33 PM            
Hey Coax, I said it was a great idea! And I certainly didn't dissaprove of it! I thought I was helping with your ideas for formulae!
No worries mate, I won't again.

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