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Author Topic:   Very off topic but it has to do with gaming
SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted October 23, 2001 11:55 PM            
Ok,I've become obsessed with 3DMark 2001 (http:\\www.madonion.com).If you played Max Payne the system requirments was a simple score using this software.They recommended that you score 2800 before you try to play the game.I'm just barley there but ran MP without any noticible problems.BTW,I think more games will be using 3DMark so you better give it a try.I'm always trying to find ways to increase my score because it's pretty poor when compared to other machines that have the same setup as me.So I've been reading the forums there trying to find out why my score is so low.Which brings me to that thing that sends shrills up my back,flashing the BIOS.I have a HP and they do have a BIOS update for my machine but their intructions for installion looks like it was written by Bill Gates Anyway,somebody want to help me flash my BIOS?Like guide me through a step by step process.If so email me.And I especially want to know how BamZip gets a 100+ frame rate in TM when his machine runs about the same speed as mine plus I have a faster video card(I only get 30 ).If some of u guys are used to tweaking or increasing game performance,can you drop me some ideas?I've gotten some things to try like updating my MB and chipset software.And I know the basics like getting the latest drivers(Detonator,DirectX......)I've been spending almost 3 days trying to up my performance,which I have slightly.Here are some of my stuff if you need it:
Intel P3 750mhz 830 Coppermine
133mhz bus
Via Apollo Pro chip(got the 4 in 1 drivers)
ASUS P28-VT(trying to update but having problems since it was made for HP)
256 SDRAM 1 DIMM
Geforce 3 64meg(yes,I have tweaked this a bit)

[This message has been edited by SuperUnknown (edited October 24, 2001).]

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted October 24, 2001 01:00 AM            
3d mark is THEEE benchmark and i have all of em

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Neo
Member
posted October 24, 2001 02:25 AM            
Don't fret Super: My fps rate is like 0.5 most of the time [hyperbole]. My gfx card is so weak (NVidia TNT2 baby!). Maybe thats why I'm frustrated all the time, even when playing well. Maybe that's why wasps are invisible to me 50% of the time. I think it might be time for an upgrade....


[hyperbole] Seriously though, is there a hotkey to show FPS in-game? I know there used to be...

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Rex R
Member
posted October 24, 2001 04:19 AM            
try pressing F1 that seems to work for me(tho its kinda depressing)

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SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted October 24, 2001 04:35 AM            
Yeah Neo,sounds like you still have a good card.Drop by madonion and give it a test.And if you score is really low you can go to the forums and get help.

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BamZipPow
Member
posted October 24, 2001 04:45 AM            
Hey Super...

What are yer graphic settings at? I run 1024x768, 16bit, high mesh, high details, terrain tris@1000, view distance@1000, treadmarks on, dust@25%, menu fire off...

Are you running the latest NVidia drivers (XP 21.83)? Have you thought about overclocking your board? How good is your cooling (CPU, case)?

My board is a BX/slot 1 P3-700mhz/100 bus overclocked to 935mhz/133 bus, 2x AGP, 368MB RAM, DirectX 8.0, SBLive Platinum, internal DSL card. Using the CPUCool prog to overclock the bus. Flashing the bios is easy. What does the bios update say that it fixes?

I'm in SA now and won't be able to frag anyone until I get back next Wednesday... Have fun with the DDM/CTF on Sunday...

BamZipPow
...how things get fragged

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BamZipPow
Member
posted October 24, 2001 04:49 AM            
Super,

My AIM is BamZipPow...I'm on now...

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KONG
Member
posted October 24, 2001 08:34 AM            
Neo, i have a tnt2 also, i get approx. 30-40 fps online. but there are still alot of times that i cannot see the wasps. i used to get 15-20 fps before i upgraded MB, CPU and memory. still when there are alot of explosions my fps drops to 18-19. my kids computer is only a 500 mhz amd with a radeon card and they get much better fps than i get

Just waiting for Santa to arrive with my Gforce

------------------
http://tmkong.tripod.com/tmk

[This message has been edited by KONG (edited October 24, 2001).]

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Kaeto
Member
posted October 24, 2001 10:08 AM            
Ugh, 3Dmark is so meaningless. Ignore it completely. 3DMark performance does not relate at ALL to actual performance in ANY games, even Max Payne. 3DMark is heavily biased towards using test conditions that never happen. Doubling your 3DMark score does necessarily mean doubling your FPS in the games you play. However, if you double your FPS in Q3A, you'll probably double your FPS in most games.

Example : My machine scores about 3000 in 3DMark, and gets around 85 FPS in Q3A high detail demo001.
Someone else's gets around 2000 in 3DMark, yet his Q3A scores are almost identical. In almost every game, our computers perform about the same (actually, his comes out on top more often than mine does).

So what does 3DMark tell you? It tells you how good your computer is at running 3DMark, and that's it.

Edit : Neo, what's your complete system specs? I can probably help you...

[This message has been edited by Kaeto (edited October 24, 2001).]

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted October 24, 2001 11:33 AM            
"3DMark performance does not relate at ALL to actual performance in ANY games, even Max Payne"

Actually if you watch 3d mark you will notice it runs the MAX-FX engine, which coincidentaly madonion developed for the Max Payne game

just thought you should know that :P

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Neo
Member
posted October 24, 2001 11:48 AM            
I got 776 on the 3DMark benchmark!!!! lol, Kaeto, I might have to take you up on that offer, man... I can send ya the whole SiSoft Sandra system profile on ICQ or something...

Perhaps I should try overclocking my computer. I have a Dell, so I think the cooling system is top-of-the-line. The video system, however, is obviously not.

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SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted October 24, 2001 04:47 PM            
Yeah,something sounds screwy with your system Neo.Here is some good advice for low scores: http://discuss.madonion.com/forum/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=techdisplayadapters&Number=375&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=1

BamZip,I only have ICQ and i refuse to use AIM (plus everybody here uses ICQ so...)I can just use your email of you can get ICQ since you prob need it for TM.My setup is pretty much the same as yours except my clock speed is 731 and not overcloched and I have 256RAM.I have overcloacked the Geforce to 500mhz processor/200mhz memory.I have the 2183 Detonators.My 3DM2001 is 3200 after some tweaking.I've read about tweaking the bios AGP speed and aperature size but my bios setup dosen't support this I'm problablly only running at AGP 2X.I know I need to flash my BIOS but it looks as though HP dosen'y have a update for my model.I know I should have something since my comp is 2 years old.All I know is I think I'm recieving about half of the score i should be getting.Anybody know of any good BIOS settings programs?
My motherboard is ASUS and made for HP computers and HP dosen't have a flash for my MB.I've upgraded the MB chip with the Via 4 in 1.I've gooten all of the Windows System updates.Got DX 8.0a.
I not too sure that it's worthless Keato.The tests are prety much actual games created by Remedy Entertainment,all using the Max Payne engine,so the tests are pretty much what you'd expect playing the latest 3d games.Plus game devolvers are starting to use 3d marks as a way to determine if you can run the game without problems,so I guss it has some importance.When I tweak or upgrade drivers I can actually see and increase in the FPS in the 3d demos.

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SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted October 24, 2001 04:53 PM            
Oh yeah BamZip,my Tm settings are the same as yours except I have 32bit color depth.And I just have the fan that came with my MB so not too much overclocking for me Would like to get a slight increase in clock speed though,like up to 800-850.That invloves using jumpers and stuff like that goes *swoosh* over my head.

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Kaeto
Member
posted October 24, 2001 11:36 PM            
Matrix, I already knew that. It doesn't mean that 3DMark scales anywhere near linearly compared to Max Payne. My machine can run Payne in max detail and never hiccup, but it won't even run some of the tests in 3DMark2k1 (the shader tests)

Most of the things 3DMark tests aren't even Payne. Not to mention, even if it WAS a good measure of Payne performance, so what? It's still nowhere near as reliable in predicting performance in the games people play as Q3A is.

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BamZipPow
Member
posted October 25, 2001 01:40 AM            
Super...

Your really long email reply will soon be on it's way. Still doing some more research. Hope your eyes won't burn out. LOL

BamZipPow
...how things get fragged

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Irascible
Member
posted October 25, 2001 03:02 AM            
Where's Dreamer???

If you're into teaching yourself, check out http://www.rojakpot.com/Speed_Demonz.htm
The bios optimization guide under the motherboards section is especially useful.

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SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted October 25, 2001 04:45 AM            
Been there done that.I've been to almost every tweaking site on the Net I'm not going to be able to do much in my BIOS since it dosen't have the stuff i want as an option...ie AGP.Looks like I'm going to have to bite the bullet and flash.
Thx Bamzip.I don't even remember what I emailed you but I'm sure you response will be usefull.
Keato,chill out a little.Nobody is saying you are wrong.I'm sure the Quake test gives you usefull info."I" think tests like that are too vague and don't test all of your 3d performance.3dmark is basically running different games in each one of it's tests so it's giving you a better understanding of your machines 3d performance.Developers are using it and it is the most used benchmark for a reason.I like using 3dmark and when I tweak something I can see an increase in not only 3dmark but every game I play(TM,Quake3.Tribes...).I can't run all the tests with high scores and I'm try to figure out why....The first time I ran 3dmark i got a score of like 2200.Now I'm up to 3200 and I still have room for improvement.I don't like comparing scores with people who have the excact setup as me and are using untweaked,default system settings and they blow me off the chart.That tells me my machine isn't running ot it's fullest potential.I think it's because my MB has my AGP running at 2x rather than 4x.Right now I can't change that.You should probably try to do a little tweaking and updating if you are unable to even run some of the tests.These tests are using things that are found in games.
Peace out

[This message has been edited by SuperUnknown (edited October 25, 2001).]

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BamZipPow
Member
posted October 25, 2001 05:25 AM            
Super...

Yer email has been sent via 28.8kps connection. Ick...

Sent 1 program, the bios flash, and tons of info and links. Hope you have all day to read it...

BamZipPow
...how things get fragged

IP:

BamZipPow
Member
posted October 25, 2001 05:49 AM            
Have you tried NVMax or NVTweak?

BamZipPow
...how things get fragged

[This message has been edited by BamZipPow (edited October 25, 2001).]

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Paranor
Member
posted October 25, 2001 09:16 AM            
I don't get what I'm missing. I have my Treadmarks and Tribes 2 settings cranked to maximum. I get 20-25 FPS - what am I missing if my fps aren't higher?

[This message has been edited by Paranor (edited October 25, 2001).]

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Kaeto
Member
posted October 25, 2001 10:35 AM            
Super, I don't think you're getting what I'm trying to say

3DMark is a totally useless benchmark because 3DMark scores don't translate into real-world performance. All the tests 3DMark runs are basically just tests that heavily stress a single function or a small group of functions. Stuff like that never happens in games, which is why Max Payne FPS isn't related to 3DMark performance, even though the two use the same engine.

See what I'm saying now?

On the other hand, if you benchmark two systems in Q3, and one's twice as fast as the other, it's usually about twice as fast as the other in every other game.

I'm trying to inform you, not annoy you. Don't go buying stuff to improve your 3DMark scores, because while it MAY (and probably will) help the stuff that really matters (i.e. FPS in TM and whatever games you play), the increase you see in your 3DMark scores won't translate into an increase in speed in the games you play. IOW, you might double your 3Dmarks, but get 5 FPS in TM. OTOH, if a video card is twice as fast as yours in Q3, it'll probably double your speed in all the games you play.

edit - and re : being unable to run some of the tests. Some of the tests WILL NOT RUN unless you have a GeForce 3 or a Radeon 8500. Guess how many games use those features? Yep, the magical number zero. Guess how many games due out in the next six months use them? One that I know of, and it doesn't interest me at all.

[This message has been edited by Kaeto (edited October 25, 2001).]

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted October 25, 2001 12:08 PM            
- nt

[This message has been edited by =DNX= Matrix (edited October 25, 2001).]

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted October 25, 2001 12:09 PM            
In essence, youre quite right m8, it would be great if we all knew what vertex shading, dhrystones, whetstones, pps rendering and realtime raytracing was......

but most dont.... hence something that gives a custom reading based on your equipment, all in one number... in short it harkens back to Amiga Demo's and i think its a great way to test your setup next to your m8's setup without the need for delving into the techie stuff.....

Not only that but you get to decide if their setup is better than yours or not - and as BAM said, theres tweek utils to help you along as well as onsite support on how to get the most from your gfx.

If thats a bad thing then im a grape

It doesnt matter that it bears no resemblance to realworld numbers cos nobody would understand em anyway

Its like using a cone to measure light proporties instead of a spectrometer

ie. everyone knows what it means when a cone is open or shut... how many understand spectrometer readings ..... see what i mean.

When people talk about earthquakes they talk about "shaking ground" not "Tectonic plate movements in the earths crust"

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SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted October 25, 2001 04:15 PM            
Yes Bam,I have overcloacked and tweaked my Geforce.Keato,I understand your concern and I'm not buying things for my computer.I've been wanting to flash the bios for a long time.I'm mainly get helpful advice to not only increase my 3dmark score but increase my 3d speed by tweaking things.I'm sure if you do some of the things i have found you will see the FPS increase in every game you play.I've already notived a good 10-15 FPS increase in TM since I have became obsessed with 3dmark And I'm not out here doing stupid things that I don't fell comfortable doing.Like I'm not overclocking everything in my system.

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BamZipPow
Member
posted October 25, 2001 07:54 PM            
That's super, Super...

Uh...did that sound right? LOL...

Did the CPUCool proggie work for you? My FPS used to max out around 62 in TM and after a few driver updates and some more dinking around it finally got over 100. All that means it that I get to see my demise that much quicker... Now only if I could frag as good as some of the others, it might pay off. Heehee...

Of course...we could just trade systems.

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