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Author Topic:   DDMCTF 9_2_2001 and a little policy
coax
Administrator
posted September 02, 2001 06:52 PM            
many things to slate out here

1. I won't be able to attend.(who cares I know) but someone needs to take screen shots.

2. No more of this DDMCTF shortening. Let me reiterate anchient historical lingo. The correct shortening of a DDM based CTF match is. DFF it stands for Deadliest Flag Frag. Just so the newbies will learn the lingo.

3. For future DDMs, DFFs, mod-DDMs, there should be a date in the title thread, to limit confusion to a minimum. Although, I've yet to be confused by seeing a tile "DDM sunday" for sanity sake lets keep confusion to an absolute minimum.

4. For all those that oppose these views; I give you this thread.

5. Don't forget to send me the pics. I don't know how or where to start making a CTF ladder but if someone has some ideas, I'll accept comments.

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KONG
Member
posted September 02, 2001 07:29 PM            
hm?

[This message has been edited by KONG (edited September 02, 2001).]

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Sailor
Administrator
posted September 02, 2001 10:17 PM            
The primary problem with a DFF ladder is that the same people do not stay on the same teams in each match. Therefore it is almost impossible to create a DFF ladder. If you build the ladder based on individuals then you must base it on the same principle as a DDM and use frags as the basis - MHO. This creates an odd formatted ladder without truly reflecting the subject of DFF - insert opinions - but that is in Rixy's format my 2p about the subject.

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Irascible
Member
posted September 02, 2001 11:04 PM            
OH YEAH?, well.... it takes one to know one.... .... ....swwiiish (oh, so confused think you I would we?)

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swisher
Member
posted September 02, 2001 11:16 PM            
It must have been Irascible that I wacked (he was two inches away from returning the/our flag). To make things worse, I didn't even return the flag after fragging my own team-mate. I'm definately going to stick to defending in CTF.

My apologies, Irascible.

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ni
Member
posted September 03, 2001 12:23 AM            
here here on that vote.. the 2nd game I tried attacking an nicking the flag but I ended up with a pretty poor score.. so stickin to defending in future with a solid tank in CTF!!!!

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Vlad
Member
posted September 03, 2001 01:26 AM            
That's the thing with TMCTF, you tend to need a 2:1 attacker/defender ratio to actually pull of a sucessful cap. Things get even worse on maps where the flag's in a lousy place, like Temple and Red Oval.

You also really need to communicate with the other players. It helps to have a dedicated defense team. One person sitting near the flag, and another closer to the middle of the map is good. The person near the middle can act as an observer and soften up any attacking forces before he gets bowled over, and usually respawns near enough to the flag to help out when they get there.

Not only that, but the defender closer to the enemy base can help out anybody who's in trouble during a flag run. If that person has a mass driver, concussion, or dirt ball, he can turn the group of chasers into a complete mess.

And it's pretty much impossible to pull off a cap by yourself. If you try to grab it and run, you'll be slowed down by the flag, and any chasing defenders will be able to run you down. If you manage to clear all the defenders out, there's a good chance that you'll be hurting, and easy pickings when they respawn. Having even one other person coordinating an attack with you can do wonders. If the attackers can get a good combination of weapons going, the attack can be even more effective..

Example: I was just playing a game on CTF Volcano with BamZipPow, Ni, and myself on one team, and Bob, Superunknown, and Player on the other. Between Ni and myself, we had defense pretty locked down. However, having 2 people on defense left poor BamZipPow to himself on offense, making things a bit slow. I decided to join BamZipPow on an attack run, and Ni stayed on Defense. BamZipPow had a cruise missile, and I had some concussions. On the approach to the enemy base, just Player was sitting there on defense. I told BamZipPow to fire his missile, and it managed to nail Player and send him flying behind the flag. I grabbed the flag and ran, with BamZipPow covering me with some swarmers he picked up near the enemy flag. Luckily, I still had my concussions so I could toss away any tanks trying to get their flag back.

I think the problem with TMCTF currently is that a LOT of the maps aren't very fun to play on. Canyon and Pyramid are great maps to play on due to the fact that you don't need to worry too much about the terrain when you're trying to capture. You just need to worry about the enemy tanks. In maps like Red Oval, Temple, Spirals, the terrain is so bumpy, or the flags are SO out of the way, the defense has an even bigger advantage, because any attacking tanks are pretty much stuck on either the flag approach or when attempting to leave.

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KONG
Member
posted September 03, 2001 01:39 AM            
even if someone makes some ctf maps like rc's, will we use them for a ddm-ctf? or will we stick with stock maps

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Vlad
Member
posted September 03, 2001 01:51 AM            
I'd love to see some custom maps in the next DFF...

Pyramid and Poison would be excellent.

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Irascible
Member
posted September 03, 2001 01:55 AM            
After having read the thread a few more times, me thinks I actually understand (slow me be I). What Sailor says makes complete sense; though I do hate thinking that hard. And like Vlad mentions, having a bunch of DFFs where the terrain is not the issue would be so incredibly FUN!!! Please do it! .... ....swwiiish ....
("swwiiish" as when Homer is mentally congratulating himself for a completely stupid statement that he believes to be witty - I know, explaining it removes what little wit I may have had).

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SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted September 03, 2001 04:00 AM            
Weatherman:Can you leave up the CTF server for a little while longer?I've really had fun on it the last week.
Tactics:I agree with Vlad,communication is very ipmortant in CTF.You can't have everyone on your team doind their own thing.There is no "I" in team
Like tonights matches,you couldn't storm the flag by yourself or you would get slaughtered.Too much D.I did find out however that you could get on a hill close to the enemey base and and snipe a few people that were setting on their flag.And of course they leave their flag on come after me while another team member causually goes up and takes their flag
coax:I didn't think,and everybody else for that matter,that CTF would count towards ranking.I don't think anybody got captures.It was fun no having to worry about getting frags for a change.

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TurdHeart
Member
posted September 03, 2001 10:36 AM            
You said it, Supe: http://www.ehowa.com/pictures/noiinteem.jpg

Heh - that was me you swatted Swisher
I was actually waiting for our flag to return before we could score a capture, but it wasn't to be - the game ended anyway.
Friendly fire's all part of the game - and those CTFs get pretty heated up!

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ni
Member
posted September 03, 2001 12:45 PM            
Yeah... that was a cool game, Vlad!! I noticed though, when you an BZP went off on one of your flag galavants, after a while Supe and Bob'd come from opposote sides of the Volcano and bombard me in random directions... they'd nick the flag and it's a case of chasing each others flags.. none at their original base!

I think, if there are extensive numbers, you gotta have about 3 going for the flag... 2 defending and sacrificing if and when needed, or covering for the person carrying the flag so if they're fragged, you're right behind them to retrieve it instead of having to return to the oppositions' base for the flag!

This happened in the game I joined when BZP was carrying the flag, was fragged and I was a couple of sex behind to pick it up and make a bee-line for the base!

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desolation1900
Member
posted September 03, 2001 01:10 PM            
The last game was deffinatly entertaining, and I would like to apologize to the probably twenty teammates I fragged. The lag was causing me all kinds of accuracy problems..yeah, the lag.

I would like to vote for the removal whichever map it is that has the flaming death in the middle of it. Its too much of a frustration with that many people, its not the huge whole in the middle, its that there is no flat terrain on it so your constantly on the throttle / off the throttle trying your best not to roll over. I'm not trying to be a whiner, but that map sucks in my opinion.

I also agree with the coordination aspect. You really need 2 or 3 people to make a run at the flag. One game I ran with Skan for the flag, and we faired reasonably well yet still ended up getting hosed. Also I think it would help if you ran plays more, and gave one guy the duty of striking for the flag, and two other guys as blockers for the striker. While fragging the enemy helps in points, just blocking them helps alot when trying to return the flag. It is harder for the enemy to kill your flag-runner when they have been hurled off the side of a hill.

Also I think CTF's are really where a program like Team Sound would come in super-handy. It is hard to call for help when your running the flag while trying to run with the flag.

As for a ladder, the way we play pretty much requires you to do it by the person's individual frags. Since the game doesn't measure captures by a player, and we switch teams each time. Either that, or if we do it by teams there should be official CTF Teams, like the Reds and Blues. Seasons would be like 6 CTF matches, and at the end of those matches the teams reform.

Only problem with that idea is it then requires people show up for the games regularly, and new people would need to be filled in and properly filed to the team that needs a player.

I would just stick to doing it by personal frags.

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KONG
Member
posted September 03, 2001 01:49 PM            
how about for ctf's with alot of players we make it sudden death. first flag capture ends the game

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Dreamer
Member
posted September 03, 2001 01:56 PM         
TMstats stores flag captures by player name...

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NeoKi
Member
posted September 03, 2001 02:09 PM            
I admit I had fun as well even though Skan and SuperUnknown where on the same team, But I'll be ready next time, right now I'm playing treadmarks at 100% so I will get better. But there are two thing to consider for the next big battle. First, if one team has two or more people then the other team it would be nice if more people would try to make the two teams even as possible. Second, I would it people would stop joing with no team, at times it's really confusing. And third, are we going to have a modded version of the CFT battle.

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Sushi

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Random Chaos
Member
posted September 03, 2001 02:09 PM            
You can set it up so that flag caps do not kill tanks and instead just give a set number of frags.

We may want to think about that when we do DFF's. It might make it a bit better toward the skill end rather then fun end.

Also, we can change tank speed, tank firerate, and tank armor of flag carriers. If flag carriers had 100% speed (istead of 80% I believe it is) then the DFF's would work better on Red Oval and the such. The change is simple and in the ctf Flag files. And is server side too, not client side.

--RC

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KONG
Member
posted September 03, 2001 03:09 PM            
RC- could u change hell crossing to a ctf map, or is that a no-no

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coax
Administrator
posted September 03, 2001 06:19 PM            
from what I see DFF scoring is out the window. I have never played a CTF match with team cooperation before sounds like fun I usually just wait till i get a mass driver pick off a couple defenders and then make a run for it. Works surprisingly well super ammo helps too

We have traditionally had DDMs on Saturday, should we make DFF Thursdays? or just have it in rotation?

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SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted September 03, 2001 10:43 PM            
Before you get to that let me make my new thread

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The Weatherman
Member
posted September 04, 2001 10:33 AM         
Just speaking up in defense of the "fiery PiT) CTF map. the key to making sucessful runs is to know about how big the pit is (so you can skim it), and to know the terrain close to the flags.

On that map, the first thing I do is learn how big the pit is and what direction the enemy flag lies. Use the spawn points as a guide for how big the pit is. As you carefully skirt the pit, look at the map and try to memorize the route relative to the spawns. then be sure to give yourself leeway on your return as the pit slow ly grows.

Also, there is nearly always an easier side to enter and exit the enemy base from. Team chat it to your mates and work on exploiting the route and providing cover. dont waste nukes and matter bombs on the open field, use it to level or smooth your opponents base.

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Vlad
Member
posted September 04, 2001 10:59 AM            
Heh, I'm starting to like Volcano (the fire pit CTF map) a little more, lately. Yes, it's a little too bumpy, but it really forces a good amount of coordination, especially on offense.

Then there's the instances that go less than smoothly, like last night...

It was 4v4 on CTF Glyphs (the reddish map with the water around the edge). I was taking my typical position of defense, and I saw the flag carrier coming with an enemy tank on their tail. I didn't see any other enemies coming towards our flag, so I decided to help out. By the time I got there, our flag carrier was blown up. I managed to grab the flag and head back to base, with 3 enemy tanks in hot pursuit. Just as I get back to the base, I see the 4th enemy tank (I think it was Robu) grab our flag and head off. I was in no condition to chase after him at this point, but thankfully my team happened to be in the area. One of them headed off to retrieve our flag while the other two stayed back to keep the 3 incoming tanks from taking their flag back. Funny part is, everybody hit the same area at the same time...

It was a HUGE dogpile of tanks and firepower. I have NO idea who killed who. There were the 3 enemy tanks, 2 defenders from my side, and me, trying to stay out of the way, all in about 10 square feet. I don't know how it happened, but I managed to keep a hold on the flag long enough to get the capture.

Was a total mess, though.

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SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted September 04, 2001 02:34 PM            
I remember that last night Vlad.Man,I was having some bad luck during that match I think you ended up capturing the flag.It was quite a mess nonetheless.

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Paranor
Member
posted September 05, 2001 09:29 AM            
Whatever happened to the CTF map that is a big circle of water with high cliffs with the flags on pilon type of hill thingy mcbob's with one of those big round shiny ball things?

Too technical for 'ya all?

We need more ICE! And I'm not talking about BUD ICE.

Loose the blue seisure leisure suit map. Or re-do it to remove all that blue? Excellent map itself and don't take anything I say offensively (whomever made it) because I'm always only j/k.

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