posted August 05, 2001 02:09 AM
Okay, had an extremely small turnout folks. Was hoping for a bit better in the way of a show of support. Thanks to Kong, GoldAnt1, [BWL]Dreamer and LordByron for taking the time out to share their suggestions, opinions and comments. The following is a transcript of tonights meeting minus some extraneous commentary while we searched for a save function in the chat room. }:-)
If you would rather just jump to the summary, run to the end of this document and read my transcript follow-up.
Yahoo! Chat History -- Sat Aug 04 22:24:35 MDT 2001
Logging dnx_lorddrow into the chat system...
You are in grp*g.3567006:1
dnx_lorddrow is away. (Auto-Away)
dnx_lorddrow: Hey there all.
dnx_lorddrow: Sorry bout that, I have been working on the baneblade tank for the last little while.
dnx_lorddrow: Trying to get my tank pack built and ready to go.
bwldreamer : strange day... absolutely noone on icq
dnx_lorddrow: I have been there, but invis Dreamer
bwldreamer : so... where is everybody?
dnx_lorddrow: Well, not quit time yet. Its only about 15 after 6 my time.
dnx_lorddrow: Errr, 15 after 5 I mean.
bwldreamer : hmmm.... my time zone converter said you don't have daylight savings active in MST...
Edit for Brevity
bwldreamer : lol - 6:05 and noone around.
dnx_lorddrow is back.
dnx_lorddrow: hehehehe.... Just gonna wait patiently Several are supposed to be here for sure.
suspendk : hi guys
dnx_lorddrow: Hey there
dnx_lorddrow: Welcome back. Glad to see a couple of people here at least. Gonna give it 10 to 20 before I really start going into things.
bwldreamer : sup?
suspendk : figured since i opened my big mouth i better show up
dnx_lorddrow: LOL..... Thanks, the support really is appreciated.
Edit for Brevity
dnx_lorddrow: Well, I am putting together the Tank Pack for my server right now. What addon weapons would you folks like to see on the server?
bwldreamer : i still think we should have used the in-game chatroom
dnx_lorddrow: Welcome back LB.
lordbyron080808 : finally, I'm in.
bwldreamer : hiho
suspendk : hello lb
bwldreamer is away. (Be Right Back)
lordbyron080808 : hey guys... what'd I miss?
dnx_lorddrow: Not much yet. I have been logged in here almost all day. The people you see here now is all that has shown up so far.
lordbyron080808 : ok...
dnx_lorddrow: I figure give folks until about 20 or 30 after, then we start with or without them.
lordbyron080808 : sounds fair.
dnx_lorddrow: Really hoping swisher shows up though, said he would and some of this will specifically apply to Entegrity.
suspendk : hard enough to get them together for a game
lordbyron080808 : true
suspendk : does that mean i dont have a life?
lordbyron080808 : suspendk? havent seen u around. Newbie?
suspendk : kong
lordbyron080808 : ohhh.
dnx_lorddrow: LOL.... Talk about not having a life, I have been working on nothing but TM the last three weeks.
lordbyron080808 : so that your new name?
suspendk : just here, too many kongs
lordbyron080808 : I'm the same drow...except i'm trying to escape life by working on TM
bwldreamer is back.
lordbyron080808 : Building models helps me relax.
dnx_lorddrow: I just want to see TM reach its true potential. If I had a job, would not have anywhere near the time to work on stuff that I have.
dnx_lorddrow: Yes, same here. I lose myself to the moment when working on my models.
lordbyron080808 : I've been learning TMapper recently. Good tool!
lordbyron080808 : I'm trying to integrate theme maps w/ my mods.
dnx_lorddrow: Yes, TMapper rocks. I love the ease of use it has. Having problems getting meshes to show up like I want them to for some reason though.
lordbyron080808 : In what way?
bwldreamer : i didn't know you have to 'learn' that prog.... thought it was pretty easy to use. But then again i _know_ how it works.
lordbyron080808 : yes...there is a learning curve to it...not shallow, but a curve anyway.
dnx_lorddrow: LOL... I can't seem to figure out how to properly import new meshes and get them to show up.
lordbyron080808 : How do you build your own terrain?
dnx_lorddrow: The filename shows up, but the mesh doesn't change when I save it.
lordbyron080808 : Oh..I've had similar issues...sometimes.
dnx_lorddrow: I just use MSPaint, make a 256 color greyscale at 1024x1024. Import it with a map already open, and voila, instant new landscape.
bwldreamer : might be the issue that you have to change exactly one entities' class before TMapper accepts changes to any of them
bwldreamer : as for heightfields, 24 bit ones are accepted, too.
dnx_lorddrow: Hmmm, will have to look at that. Haven't really looked at the map entities yet.
lordbyron080808 : how do u import the heightfields?
bwldreamer : file -> import heightfield
lordbyron080808 : ok...
dnx_lorddrow: You have to have an existing map already open to import though.
lordbyron080808 : yeah...found that one out at least.
bwldreamer : I don't know whether I am going to change that - another thing that forces you to have TM installed.
bwldreamer : not really, but it encourages it.
dnx_lorddrow: Actually, not a bad idea. But I would like to have the ability to start a completely fresh map, and not need to start with an existing one.
lordbyron080808 : i agree w/ ld on that one.
lordbyron080808 : Having to find a relatively clean map makes thing a little more diff. than needed.
bwldreamer : how about a flat map only equipped with a heightmap and standard (ie ramp) texture rules
lordbyron080808 : better...
dnx_lorddrow: That would be a better way to start a new map at least.
dnx_lorddrow: Just include a starting point ved that it opens automatically when you choose the new map choice.
bwldreamer : k, I've taken a note concerning that wish
lordbyron080808 : thanks...
dnx_lorddrow: Flat plane with nothing on it at all. Maybe a couple of basic texture files.
dnx_lorddrow: Thanks Dreamer.
dnx_lorddrow: Okay, well I am going to give this another 5 minutes, and then assume that all truly interested parties are here.
lordbyron080808 : sounds good
bwldreamer : bad show.
dnx_lorddrow: This is actually what I was afraid would happen.
lordbyron080808 : very...anything we discuss wil have to be rediscussed later.
lordbyron080808 : maybe after the DDM tomorrow?
dnx_lorddrow: Possibly, but I have my doubts that anyone would show up then either.
lordbyron080808 : maybe, but even if 3-5 more stay, we are better than this.
lordbyron080808 : I thought encouraging players to bring their grocery lists would attract more people.
dnx_lorddrow: Agreed. Well, we can go through most of this now, post the discussion to the Forums, and hope others are interested enough to actually give some input.
bwldreamer : I think more people would have turned up if Jim or Tom had announced their presence in advance.
lordbyron080808 : the first question: "How to standardize mods, if at all?"
dnx_lorddrow: Agreed. Jim said he would try to be here. But gave no guarantees.
bwldreamer : lb - ENTegrety
bwldreamer : and no sharing files between mods
lordbyron080808 : not enough...what about licences et all
bwldreamer : licenses?
dnx_lorddrow: Thats my feeling, following ENTegrety is the way to do it. Give full credit to any from whom you have borrowed mod portions, similar to how I have done with Baneblade and Bonaparte.
lordbyron080808 : lda doesnt want any files except ents traded.
lordbyron080808 : I also think trading lwos is a bad idea.
bwldreamer : lb - those are shaerd anyway and everybody has them and nobody won't attempt to delete those to uninstall any of those
dnx_lorddrow: That is what I was also wondering about.... Takes us into a corollary question 'Is it alright to use existing entity code, as long as reference to the actually included with the mod file?'
bwldreamer : sure, why not?
dnx_lorddrow: That was incomplete. reference to the actual origination code writer is included with the mod file.
lordbyron080808 : true...but having 20 of the same ones is overkill, even non-lda lwos
dnx_lorddrow: My opinion is that new weapons should alway include new meshes for the mounted weapon.
bwldreamer : but that would make mod handling extremely complicated and we all know people DO want to uninstall mods
dnx_lorddrow: Reuse of the LDA meshes is a bit beyond the extent of what LDA is okay with I think.
lordbyron080808 : but at what cost?
bwldreamer : lb -> hdd space. an abundant resource.
bwldreamer : ld -> noone has done that so far, afaik
dnx_lorddrow: The cost is a bit of work. Repackaging old mods with the permission of original mod creators should be okay.
dnx_lorddrow: Lots of early mods just reuse LDA meshes and textures Dreamer.
dnx_lorddrow: the Flame wave cannon is one example. Uses the flamer mesh I believe.
bwldreamer : are there any that do more than reference the LDA files ?
dnx_lorddrow: So is the Gatling laser, just reuses the GAU mesh and skin, changing a few colors.
dnx_lorddrow: Gatling laser has a skin that is blue in area's that are brown on the LDA skin.
bwldreamer : circulating changed textures is fine with LDA
dnx_lorddrow: Same exact skin otherwise.
lordbyron080808 : this ithis is against lda guidelines.
dnx_lorddrow: Yes, LDA guidelines specify that changing of original LDA files is against the rules.
dnx_lorddrow: That includes modifying original meshes or textures.
bwldreamer : oh. just saw that too.
lordbyron080808 : this is y I am uncertain about re-packaging.
dnx_lorddrow: Same here. Also why I was hoping we would have a LDA rep here to cover things like that for us.
bwldreamer : weren't we all hoping there would be just about anybody here?
dnx_lorddrow: I think so. Seemed to generate interest, but real bad showing, as we have already discussed.
lordbyron080808 : yes. but LDA might be more/less flexible w/ a large group of interested players
dnx_lorddrow: True. A showing like this is actually bad in the overall scheme of things.
bwldreamer : but it fits the general mood of the TM community.
dnx_lorddrow: Means we have a far smaller group of interested individuals than some seem to claim.
bwldreamer : careful with that, ld.
dnx_lorddrow: LOL... Not stating a certainty. But that would be the current appearance.
lordbyron080808 : I agree. most just thought this was a modders convention.
bwldreamer : oh, didn't realize. maybe I should leave then.
dnx_lorddrow: I stated several times that it was not just for modders. Players was the first group I called out in the original posting.
bwldreamer : no need to defend yourself, man.
lordbyron080808 : This WASNTa modders convention, but many still thought so.
suspendk : just gave them a reason not to come
dnx_lorddrow: Just feel bad that others felt I meant them to be excluded.
lordbyron080808 : Many players, I think, don't see why these issues apply to them...
bwldreamer : players are so innocent....
lordbyron080808 : unmodding is more of a player's issue than a modder's issue
dnx_lorddrow: Okay, so are we agreed that ENTegrety naming conventions should be applied to all portions of a mod? Or is that still open to further discussion?
lordbyron080808 : still open i think?
suspendk : u must understand that they are going to play anyway with or without mods
lordbyron080808 : what about calls to other modsesp. meshes.
bwldreamer : good point, kong
suspendk : i played for 2 years on 1.0.1
dnx_lorddrow: I think calls to other meshes should depend on whether the originating modder or LDA is okay with that.
thegoldant joined the room.
thegoldant : IM LATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
bwldreamer : referencing stock models/textures is what makes pure server-side mods possible, after all.
lordbyron080808 : but w/o LDA unmodding these is unpractical.
dnx_lorddrow: hey GA.... Glad you made it.
lordbyron080808 : hey GA
bwldreamer : sorry guys, it's 3am for me. can we get on with this, please?
dnx_lorddrow: How do you mean that without LDA unmodding is unpractical?
thegoldant : what is unmodding.....
lordbyron080808 : the majority of calls go to lda stock files...how to unmod when some files are left?
lordbyron080808 : unmodding is removing mod files
dnx_lorddrow: Unmodding is having the ability to remove a modification without affecting other mods in a bad way.
thegoldant : oh
thegoldant : i sorta understand
dnx_lorddrow: WB Dreamer. }
thegoldant : like a switch to turn on stock weapons and tanks, and then a swithc to put the wild crazy ones back in?
lordbyron080808 : yeah..
bwldreamer : like the prog I'm working on....
dnx_lorddrow: Depends on the modification LB. My mods call out those files I know I did not originate, including files I used that are LDA originals.
suspendk : wouldnt that benefit server ops
dnx_lorddrow: But I do use code copied to the addons directory and renamed simply to make the unmodding work.
lordbyron080808 : so, u include them in the files?
dnx_lorddrow: Yes it would Kong. immensely.
lordbyron080808 : er..modpacks?
lordbyron080808 : this inclusion is forbidden by lda
dnx_lorddrow: Yes, if I have used code that LDA originated, I state in my readme which files they were and that I did not write the files, but used them as a part of the mod to simplify distribution.
lordbyron080808 : this is why i say unmodding w/o lda is impracticaL.
dnx_lorddrow: Again, why I wanted an LDA rep here. Clarify that exact issue.
bwldreamer : we'll have to do without
suspendk joined the room.
dnx_lorddrow: Yes, I do understand it is currently forbidden. You also need to realize that though borrowed from LDA, they are not exactly the same as the originals. Only base my code on them as examples.
lordbyron080808 : but altering too is a no-noo.
dnx_lorddrow: EX. The Streamer1.ent file is broken according to Entegrety using it as written by LDA.
dnx_lorddrow: I don't copy and past LB. I open up the original file. Look to see how the effect was made, then create my own version of it from there.
dnx_lorddrow: copy and paste that is.
bwldreamer : quote from LDA "Distributing edited Entity (.ent) files is okay"
dnx_lorddrow: I don't modify their original files either.
lordbyron080808 : Ents...yes...but meshes...this is the heart of my prob.
dnx_lorddrow: I just base my code on theirs and name it what I need it named.
thegoldant : so, lorddrow, yuor makieng an ingame or outgame switch to put mods in and out at ease without a big hasel
bwldreamer : meshes ARE the main prob, yes.
bwldreamer : but if you're going to use a stock mesh for your mod, you don't have to copy it to use it.
dnx_lorddrow: I NEVER use LDA original meshes though. I always make my own, or else borrow from the mod I am getting stuff from and call it out.
bwldreamer : scaling etc. can all be controlled via ents
dnx_lorddrow: Easier for a modeller to take a model, and rescale and position a mesh from within the program they use Dreamer.
bwldreamer : but forbidden.
dnx_lorddrow: Would be a REALLY drawn out process of scale in the ent file, start TM to see if it looks right, go back and rescale, come back to TM..... etc.
bwldreamer : if you have to use stock files, that's the way.
thegoldant : TreadMarks needs a mod refreash option
thegoldant : on the top right of the start screen it says none right?
dnx_lorddrow: Again, I have the same problem, with it. And again, I am not using LDA meshes in any of my mods. Making all new meshes of my own.
bwldreamer : good point goldant
thegoldant : Misc tools tools or soemthing it could say, all neato things to help refreash mods, etc.
bwldreamer : not a bad idea at all.
dnx_lorddrow: I agree, excellent suggestion GA.
lordbyron080808 : oh...a refesh option w/mods...sorry
Edit for brevity
lordbyron080808 : So in sum...what have we concluded?
Edit for brevity
suspendk : can i say something b4 anyone leaves
thegoldant : k
lordbyron080808 : go ahead.
suspendk : i might have said thi b4, bear with me make it sipler to install mods, self extracting?
bwldreamer : I'm currently working on that - efforts combining with ENTegrety
suspendk : one person on the bb took two weeks to unzip weapons
dnx_lorddrow: Back to the discussion at hand. We need to at least try to agree on a naming system for some kind of unmodding abilities. But we also have to let other modders know what naming conventions to use.
bwldreamer : kong - any specific reason for leaving?
Kong/suspendk left room at this point.
dnx_lorddrow: Another good point Kong. Should we make our future mods self extracting to simplify for those that don't understand how to use Winzip.
thegoldant : whos kong
thegoldant : suspendk is kong?
thegoldant : gone?
dnx_lorddrow: And why did he do that?
bwldreamer : dunno. maybe pissed off at not finding this chat as he expected it to be.
lordbyron080808 : i wonder what he expected?
dnx_lorddrow: This is basically the exact form I expected this to take. But not as many people as I had expected.
bwldreamer : more players, fewer modders, perhaps
bwldreamer : the chat interface is pretty crappy, though.
Edit for brevity
lordbyron080808 : but what can we hope to achieve w/ such a small group?
Minor diatribe from GA1 about turtle tank snipped. }:-)
dnx_lorddrow: Good point LB. I know more should be here. Best we can do is air our suggestions and post for others to consider.
bwldreamer : the TM interface is not better, imo
lordbyron080808 : agreed...dreamer
bwldreamer : concerning self-extraction vs. zip files.....
lordbyron080808 : i'm 4 self-extraction.
bwldreamer : I vote for zip files.
thegoldant : i vote for a little a both
bwldreamer : long-term.
thegoldant : self ewxtracting zip files
lordbyron080808 : this is an easy & tangible area of concensus.
dnx_lorddrow: I would say self extracting would be easier for most users.
bwldreamer : zip files with a proprietary extension.
bwldreamer : and a mod handling prog that installs them for you
lordbyron080808 : hernh?
bwldreamer : like .umod for unreal
lordbyron080808 : ok.
dnx_lorddrow: There's a good idea Dreamer, but again, we would have to get a working utility to do exactly that.
thegoldant : hrmmmmm
thegoldant : guys
bwldreamer : I'll happily continue working on that.
thegoldant : i think im gonna leave............
dnx_lorddrow: Until we have the util, won't work.
dnx_lorddrow: Thanks for dropping in GA>
lordbyron080808 : so, zips till then...
thegoldant : errrrrrr i'll get
bwldreamer : how about NSIS till then?
lordbyron080808 : but self-extracting exe are easy to make.
dnx_lorddrow: Where can I find that util?
lordbyron080808 : same here.
dnx_lorddrow: Exactly LB.
thegoldant : a glass of water first
bwldreamer : nullsoft.
dnx_lorddrow: Self extracting very easy to make, whether you are using WinZip or PowerArchiver.
lordbyron080808 : i still root for the exe files
thegoldant : *dumps water on dreamer *
bwldreamer : http://www.nullsoft.com/free/
thegoldant : *water is free also its jsut wet*
bwldreamer : the installer scripts are easy to write
Insane commentary snipped due to length.
bwldreamer : and would make mod installing a breeze.
thegoldant left the room.
lordbyron080808 : but winzip does this w/o a learning curve?
dnx_lorddrow: Got it now Dreamer.
lordbyron080808 : I will take a look.
bwldreamer : the NSIS license is quite cool, too....
bwldreamer : that might make for a good start, imo
dnx_lorddrow: Just reading it on the side here. hehehehe. Looks pretty cool. You are correct, looks like it may be a great starting point.
dnx_lorddrow: Okay, Back to the actual discussion at hand. 1) Should we switch to ICQ so a transcript is easy to grab?
bwldreamer : just a suggestion. winzip is, afaik, shareware, correct?
bwldreamer : icq? good idea.
bwldreamer : what about the first bits of this?
dnx_lorddrow: Yes it is Dreamer. Same with the newest version of Powerarchiver. PA 6.0 is 100% free though.
lordbyron080808 : nah..this is ok.
bwldreamer : I have to go to sleep soon, anyway... starting this at 2am in the morning was not a good idea for me.
lordbyron080808 : sorry...
dnx_lorddrow: Sorry bout that Dreamer. Was thinking would be earlier for you.
bwldreamer : maybe we could reschedule this, personally inviting people like swisher or LDA members?
lordbyron080808 : so we are agreed on the idea of self-extraction, then?
lordbyron080808 : i agree dreamer.
bwldreamer : for now, yes. everything that makes a mod easy to install.
dnx_lorddrow: I think so for now. Self extracting would be excellent way to simplify for users.
bwldreamer : uninstalling will probably remain an issue.
lordbyron080808 : well...some progress at least.
dnx_lorddrow: How about naming conventions regarding entity files. I feel each mod should be a complete archive that has no need of pre-existing mods or LDA files.
lordbyron080808 : i disagree
lordbyron080808 : not imprinciple but in execution.
bwldreamer : me, too.
lordbyron080808 : with whom?
dnx_lorddrow: Could you give me more extensive reasoning though?
lordbyron080808 : the prob. is how to include other meshes into the pack.
bwldreamer : reference LDA files as much as you want, but stay away from other people's mods - that's what ENTegrety encourages, too, btw.
lordbyron080808 : which now we can't
bwldreamer : "a file referenced by a mod entity shall include the primary entity name in its file name"
dnx_lorddrow: Like the Cylon Raider LB, the use of the Plasma Pulser is great, but if a user does not have the Plasma Pulser mod, the Raider has no main gun.
bwldreamer : "except if it's not in the adons, but in the main TM folder structure"
lordbyron080808 : gotcha
bwldreamer : take this example: I have the beelzebub mrl and thor's hammer installed.
lordbyron080808 : yey....
bwldreamer : now I want to remove thor's hammer.
dnx_lorddrow: And the entities that make up the Pulser won't be included in the archive if they don't have the Cylon name somewhere in it.
lordbyron080808 : ok...
bwldreamer : how am I to know I must not remove the texture thor's hammer uses?
dnx_lorddrow: Perfect example Dreamer, because the beelzebub uses files that are named thor, by removing parts of the one mod, you break the other.
bwldreamer : i think it's actually the other way round, but in principle, yes.
lordbyron080808 : gotcha...
bwldreamer : I really would like to use ENTegrety's .unmod files as input for my mod handling prog.
bwldreamer : if everyone just sticks to those rules, we'll all be fine, even if a bit short on hdd space and a bit uncomfortable scaling and warping original models.
lordbyron080808 : uncomfortable...but I will meditate on it...
dnx_lorddrow: Thats why I am so adamant about naming conventions LB. Doesn't take away your Intellectual rights to make it do what you want it to. Just gives a framework for how to name the files. Has nothing to do with what is inside the entity except naming the entity type correctly.
bwldreamer : each file in the addons folder should belong to exactly one mod
bwldreamer : that's mo.
dnx_lorddrow: Thanks for backing me up there Dreamer.
lordbyron080808 : maybe just use all new meshes...
bwldreamer : but no file (except for modified ents) should find its way from the stock folders into the addons.
lordbyron080808 : the ents don't trouble me just meshes really.
dnx_lorddrow: Thats what I do anyway. I feel that some of the older mods should be pulled from distibution until new meshes and skins are made for them.
dnx_lorddrow: Especially the ones that use modified art made by modifying the LDA originals.
dnx_lorddrow: LDA has given express permission to use modified entities, as long as the original entity is untouched. Meshes and Art on the other hand are expressly forbidden to be modified.
lordbyron080808 : perhaps a convention to always use new meshes would mollify me.
dnx_lorddrow: That would make me much happier as well LB. But art also needs to be part of that convention.
lordbyron080808 : agreed.
dnx_lorddrow: Okay to reference existing art would be okay as well, but modifying art without the express permission of LDA or the original mod coder would be wrong.
lordbyron080808 : this way there can be no repackaging.
bwldreamer : I still say: referencing meshes is ok, copying is not. agreed?
lordbyron080808 : but repaackaging is copying?
lordbyron080808 : refwerencing is ok
bwldreamer : repackaging? I'm not sure I get what you mean.
dnx_lorddrow: I agree to that Dreamer. As long as the referenced mesh is something that exists in the main LDA directories.
bwldreamer : yes.
dnx_lorddrow: LB means that copying Meshes or art from LDA to include in a mod should be a no-no
bwldreamer : a definitive no-no.
lordbyron080808 : and others to I think.
bwldreamer : *needs some fresh air to stay awake* brb
bwldreamer is away. (Be Right Back)
dnx_lorddrow: Okay to reference to them, but changing either mesh or art should only be allowed if the original artist says it is okay.
lordbyron080808 : this sounds like a good compromise to me.
dnx_lorddrow: Referencing to other mods should be discouraged though due to my previous statments regarding what happens when one of the mods is missing.
lordbyron080808 : this is my point...
lordbyron080808 : altho' most of my mods do just this.
lordbyron080808 : And some...like the Djinni are impossible w/o it.
dnx_lorddrow: Should get permission from the originating mod maker(many actually do give permission to use their mods as long as you give the originator credit for his part in the creation of your mod)
bwldreamer is back.
bwldreamer : agreed
dnx_lorddrow: Using the 270 mm and 150 mm as an example. NOPeR/Oracles read me for the 240 mm(which is part of what both are based on) may be used by others as long as credit to the original mod authors is given in the new mods readme file.
bwldreamer : one more thing: each mod should include a readme including a valid contact email address of the creator and all pre-originators.
dnx_lorddrow: Agreed, and an excellent suggestion Dreamer.
lordbyron080808 : pre-originators may be hard tho'
lordbyron080808 : but otherwise agreed.
bwldreamer : i want to know whom to blame for the virus infecting my comp
dnx_lorddrow: Will depend on the person. Neither NOPeR nor Oracle are really in the loop right now, and I don't know of anyone that knows how to contact them.
dnx_lorddrow: LOL Dreamer, ooops, you mean I forgot to add that info to my readme's?
lordbyron080808 : So we agree to: self-extraction, conventional names, no repackaging of meshes/art?
dnx_lorddrow: Agreed. Naming conventions to be based on ENTegrety naming rules?
lordbyron080808 : agreed
dnx_lorddrow: Good, two birds down now. A whole flock of 'em still in the air though.
lordbyron080808 : But enough for now...let dreamer sleep.
dnx_lorddrow: Next question. Regarding copyright notices.
dnx_lorddrow: Okay, if we would rather hold this off til later, can do.
lordbyron080808 : I think we should...
bwldreamer : thx guys. I was actually drowsing already...
dnx_lorddrow: Okay, reconvene tomorrow after the DDM/CTF?
lordbyron080808 : agreed.
bwldreamer : sorry, I'll be in bed then
bwldreamer : need sleep.
lordbyron080808 : night dreamer!
bwldreamer : cya guys.
dnx_lorddrow: How about you choose a time tomorrow and let LB and I know Dreamer?
lordbyron080808 : good for me...
bwldreamer : not a good idea, I'm afraid - that might be very early morning for you...
bwldreamer : lb - you got an icq# I could add to my list?
dnx_lorddrow: I am usually up by no later than 9 am My time. About 5 or 6 your time Dreamer.
dnx_lorddrow: 5 or 6 PM your time that is.
lordbyron080808 : oh...we'll try to set up a better time later then.
lordbyron080808 : please add ne dreamer.
dnx_lorddrow: Night Dreamer.
Non pertinent final commentary snipped.
A few requests made by and for players regarding simplifying mod installation and management have been made. To this end Dreamer is working on a program to manage mods easily that will work hand in hand with ENTegrety and TMapper. (Hope I have that right Dreamer)
In summary on the modders side of the discussion, the few of us that made the meeting have agreed to follow these simple conventions:
1)All new mods will have all pertinent files named according to ENTegrety rules. Any new modifications that require a mesh, should preferably have a new mesh built for it, but reference to original LDA or mod author's meshes are okay if permission from the original author has been given.
2)Copying, renaming, and distributions of LDA original files is a big no-no (should be obvious, but restated here for confirmation)
3)Usage of LDA original entity files as a TEMPLATE for modified weapons is okay. Directly copying the file and simply renaming is not okay.
4)Making references to LDA original unmodified files in the standard LDA directories is fine as long as those files are things normally included with a standard install. This include entities, meshes, art files and sound files. They may NOT be repackaged and distrubuted in any manner.
4)Use of other mod authors code is fine, as long as either express or specific permission has been given by the original author. Additionally Credit to the originating author should always be given. A valid e-mail address to the original author should be in the readme if available.
5)New mods shall be packaged by preference as an executable installaion file if possible. Right now discussion of a packaging standard and specific software to do so is still open to discussion.
Looking forward to any comments, additional suggestions and opinions eagerly. Hope to see a lot more of you at the next couple of meetings.
Thanks for surviving this long read!