|
Author Topic:   DDM rankings from the 3rd DDM
coax
Administrator
posted June 18, 2001 02:56 AM            
The new winners of the DDM are on my site. And there is a new DDM champion. Also, Neo is creaping up on the Weatherman's seat as third, I can see some major action going on between those two to come. Check it out heres the link
www.geocities.com/coaxs/ranking.html

------------------
LDA Players, Information, and etc...

[This message has been edited by coax (edited June 18, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by coax (edited June 18, 2001).]

IP:

coax
Administrator
posted June 18, 2001 03:18 AM            
caugt i said 3rd, I meant 10th. Its late at night.

------------------
LDA Players, Information, and etc...


IP:

The Weatherman
Member
posted June 18, 2001 12:40 PM         
Well, I am looking forward to the battle - Neo is a fine player. I have been convinced that 2V2 is not my strong suit, DDM is all I got left .
Sorry I missed this last one - I have some friends in from out of town.
Please send me the screenshots of DDM10 scores sos I can chew on them. I will try to post thes stats and the overall DDM ranks by Wed. I have narrowed down the field of possible ranking stats to 2 - Average Frags per game and average Deadliness. Just a note on the methods - I was going to base them on a rolling average of the past 4 DDMS with a minimum of 2 DDMs necessary to rank. I figure that a month of DDM play is pretty representative of how active players are doing.

IP:

SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted June 18, 2001 05:57 PM            
How do you calcualte the rankings coax?Do you take the greatest first place finishes and give that person first place and 2nd and 3rd place is not really a factor?I say if somebody gets 2nd place 15 times they should be number one.I just say that because I have 12 top 3 finishes and that would put me in second place behind your 13 coax LOL......Just kidding

IP:

coax
Administrator
posted June 18, 2001 06:45 PM            
Yup, theres a lot of different ranking systems out there. I'm sure your top dog for one of them

My system is based on the fact that, people usually only value the person who gets 1st place not the person who gets 2nd 10 times. So i base it on whoever has the highest 1st place finishes.

So, basically 1st place is worth a billion points, 2nd is worth 10000 points and 3rd place is worth .434685638459496984376 points.

------------------
LDA Players, Information, and etc...


IP:

Skandranon
Member
posted June 19, 2001 12:57 AM            
You're putting a lot of thought into this, Weatherman - and I like how you're going about it. Frags and Deadliness are good places to start. Maybe both? Combine the statistics somehow.

For instance, I would win Average Deadliness (up until the last two matches I couldn't attend), but might not have the best kill numbers all the time. Does that mean I should win when I didn't win the matches? Not likely, at least on that statistic alone - means I'm not aggressive enough, perhaps.

However, should someone that scores high but gets killed themselves and generally plays sloppy get the crown? Not in my opinion. Somewhere in between aggressiveness, skill, and kills is the 'best' player.


------------------
Skandranon,
The Black Gryphon

IP:

Neo
Member
posted June 19, 2001 04:10 AM            
Weatherman: Thanks for the compliment. I'm also looking forward to "the battle".

However, I wouldn't be so quick to write you off for 2v2 playing. I think it is a different style of match--which requires a different style of playing. Most people in the TM community are accustomed to two things on multiplayer: DDM-style matches, and AI-filled servers(with an occasional human or two). This makes for a style of playing that preys upon the weak, typically. This makes it difficult to adapt to 2v2 playing, which is very team-oriented and concentrates much more on defense. It is obvious to me that Supercoax's strength lies is their ability to apply both of these techniques, whereas no other team has really developed the team aspect to the same extent.

Therefore, simply playing a few 2v2s and being defeated does not make you a bad 2v2 player. You went up against the Supercoax Minotaur and fought to a respectable finish. That makes you a respectable 2v2 player who had a tough start, at least in my mind. Don't give up.

And Skandranon: I like those ideas and have been suggesting them from the start of Weatherman's rankings. I thought a "composite ladder" would be the most accurate method. The idea is to have several different ladders for different aspects of the game (e.g., frags, deadliness), and make a composite ladder ranking by averaging each player's positions on the other ladders. The player with the lowest (i.e., best) average, is the leader.

IP:

SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted June 19, 2001 04:11 AM            
I do like what Weatherman does.Its interesting to look at all of the statistics,but I think it should remain for entertainment purposes only.We should stick with the simple idea of whoever gets the most frags in 30 minutes wins,or whoever gets 30 frags first.I'm an agressive player and my deaths might be a little higher than somebody who is a passive type player.Although as I look at Weather's database I see that my death total is average and in sometimes better than average.I guess that makes me both a offensive and defensive player now that I look at the stats
Anyway,I think it would be almost impossible to develope a system that benifits or punishes the different types of players equally.Hey......if it ain't broke don't fix it

IP:

The Weatherman
Member
posted June 20, 2001 05:45 PM         
I can't agree with you there, Supe. My stats should be the sole basis for rewarding the fabulous cash and prizes that are heaped upon the TM masters by their adoring fans

Yes, for entertainment purposeses only - Really they are just to give numbers to how well people do in DDMS and to entertain myself with numbers

Skan, as a sloppy win-by-aggression player, I cannot agree with you totally. The DDMS have always been settled by pure frags. I wouldn't mind keeping a skill or deadliness ladder up because those are pretty important stats, too. I think it is important to note that having the ladder be frag based ranks the best DDM players highest - NOT the best all around players. A true ranking system would have to take in to account skills and non melee (DDM) games as well. i.e. I am not the most skilled or too hot at 2V2 but I think that I am one of the best DDM players (good in DDMS, okay overall). I think that the ranking of best overall player is a bit more complicated then I am willing to handle right now. Matrix had some good ideas on how that could work.

I have just done some figuring and I think that I am going to hold off on making a ladder for a while longer. With all of the averaging that I did to generate numbers for the ladders, I think that some of the meaning behind them gets lost. I need to ponder a bit more (and get some of my other work done) before I feel really confident about trying to make sense of the stats on anything other than a DDM by DDM basis.

IP:

The Weatherman
Member
posted June 20, 2001 06:08 PM         
Uh, here is something weird. I based my stats for DDM 10 on the screenshots given by coax. Neo then sent me copies of his screenshots of the same games ( http://home.austin.rr.com/treadmarks/DDM10.zip ). Both of their Frag totals are in complete agreement (I think) but their death totals are way different. Who is correct? Who knows. But it is safe to say that any stats that are based on the number of deaths (Skill, Aggressiveness and Deadliness) could have some serious errors. I am really going to back off of the ladders until this is straightened out. I am going to run with coax's screens for the analysis page, for time being. And even more than ever, all stats on my analysis page are JFF.

Does anyone have any ideas what is up? Could it be that the server only tracks frags and lets individual games track deaths?

I guess the real numbers could be extracted from server logs, but that would definitely be a pain. so, uh, hmmm....

IP:

SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted June 20, 2001 06:18 PM            
Actually one the second game which Turdhart won it says I had 28 frags but I'm pretty sure I had 29 becasue I was about to make 30 the second that he won.No bid deal though but maybe if Neo's says I had 29 in that match then it must be the correct one.

IP:

Neo
Member
posted June 20, 2001 07:50 PM            
My totals for the 3rd game actually looked pretty similar, if not identical, to coax's. But the images for the 1st game definitely have differnt death totals. I also have no idea why. [The only thing I could think of that could cause that would be if "the world" fragged each of these players several times within the 1 second interval between these screenshots. But that didn't happen. lol. More likely that the server doesn't keep track of deaths, or something of that nature. Ugh.]

Later on I will compare my screens from the other DDMs against coax's and see if there are differences in those as well. If there are, we might as well give up on the ladder idea, unless we name an "official" scorekeeper who will be present at all subsequent DDMs for the entirety of each match, and make screens for each of these matches--or something to this effect. Ugh. Hopefully this is an isolated event.

Oh and Super: I don't have the screens for the 2nd match of DDM10. I forgot to take one before the map changed. Sorry buddy.

IP:

coax
Administrator
posted June 20, 2001 07:56 PM            
I think i know what happened. I got disconnected from the first game after 5-10 mins and then had to reconnect. Maybe the death totals are not saved if you have to reconnect?

I'll go perform some experiments on Skan's server right now.

IP:

coax
Administrator
posted June 20, 2001 10:01 PM            
deaths arn't saved like frags are on Skan's server. So use Robu's. I guess rule of thumb is whoever has the highest numbers for frags or deaths reflects whose been there longest.

------------------
LDA Players, Information, and etc...


IP:

The Weatherman
Member
posted June 21, 2001 12:39 PM         
good call, coax. Does anyone have a screenshot of the second game (provided they had a stable connection).

IP:

SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted June 21, 2001 02:21 PM            
I've gotten in the habit of forgetting to start Hypersnap.I usually remember it when the first game starts and by then its too late I'll have to tie a ribbon around my finger for the next one........crap....I forgot I'm going out of town this weekend.Guess I'll catch you guys on the next one.

IP:

Skandranon
Member
posted June 21, 2001 05:55 PM            
That mean you're going to miss the Saturday match too, I take it, Super?

------------------
Skandranon,
The Black Gryphon

IP:

SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted June 21, 2001 10:51 PM            
I won't be leaving until Sat night but I have to be at work by 4EST.I'll try to make it if I can.I have a little party going on Friday night so I might not be up by 2:30 If I don't their are plenty of good players in DNX.Maybe next week we can make a BWLvsDNXvsLoneWolfs.I'm pretty much good for anytime time since I'm not taking Summer classes but I do work everynight but Sunday and Monday.

IP:

Robu1
Member
posted June 24, 2001 11:57 PM            
coax, I don't run a server. ???????

IP: