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Author Topic:   New Features For TM (or TM2?)
JVortex
Member
posted May 14, 2001 05:13 PM            
[prepare for another long winded post by JV . maybe the longest of mine yet!]
Just thought id start a something here on a thought i had a while back. dont know just how much LDA still keeps up on this board, but i hope they run across at least this post and can get some ideas from it (the book that it is, heh). My goal here is not to see this post become a cluster of a bunch of half-a$$ed ideas, but more of a post for some thoughts that could improve TM as a whole. Im going to take most of whats here and post it on my site in more or less a FAQ format as an area for people to see what kinds of ideas are kicking around out there. also (hopefully) Jim or "other" will see it and either use some of these ideas or become inspired and come up with some new and different stuff. i know that TM2 is in the works so maybe this way we could have some say in things without emailing the hell out of him and bugging him to death. one thing to keep in mind for these new ideas is that some time soon there will be a lot more players. once TM2 comes out i imagine that will help and having the PS2 version (assuming its multiplayer compatable) will also send in a rush of new faces. someone was talking about a unix (?) version too i believe. once this game gets propperly publicized you know theres going to be a LOT more players. this game wont be the small little comunity that it is now for much longer. the address of the compiled FAQ-ish thing will be: http://server2049.virtualave.net/jvortex/html/TM/TM2ideas/index.html
for anyone who wants to check it out at a later date (expect it to exist by about 5/17/01 or so) instead of reading this (hopefully) long thread. the only thing i would (please) like to not see here is another spawn of the camera view topic.

CAMERA VEIW: here is the solution for everybody; let the camera be globally attached to the tank as 0 point (more or less like how it is now). then allow full x, y, z axis rotation (like with the mouse) and the ability to zoom in and out to a certain degree. after that use the option to have the camera follow the tank or follow the ground. then of course option to attach camera to tank or turret. then a couple hotkeys for preconfigured setups. thats it, all is good. there the camera topic is taken care of , heh.

For starters (and this could easily be done now i believe) is that i see a problem with team play mode. if you frag someone on your team what happens, you say "oops, sorry" and thats the end of it. no, i dont think thats right. if you frag someone on your team it should count just as if you fragged yourself; you should loose a frag from your total. this still gives you the option to shoot a team mate a couple times for whatever reason, but if you frag them it becomes your loss as well. this will help to prevent friendly fire and make people think a bit more before they fire off those area effect weapons! should make things more interesting i think.

TM, to me, seems like the perfect PC game. it for the most part has all this incredible potential stored in it just waiting to come out. one great thing is how easy it is for users to modify the game and make their own addon weaponry and vehicles. aside from the obvious once you begin to understand the basic mechanics of the game a few more options/ ideas spring to mind.


TM 1.01 was a kick a$$ game all on its own, then CTF got added and it got even better, sort of...

Improved CTF
CTF became available before anyone was really ready for it it seems. no one has shown any real intrest (that ive seen) in having a CTF server, myself included. sometimes people even complain a little when a CTF map comes up in the rotation. recently however people are beginning to show greater aptitude twards true team play and organizing themselves. as an example when myself and sailor end up on a CTF map on the same team (which we always tend to do, heh) we tend to plot and plan along the same lines w/ out even chatting to each other and make a pretty good combination. adding in a voice chat option to TM should make CTF a lot more fun i would think.
TM should have voice chat in some form i believe (Roger Wilco maybe, i hear its good but have yet to try it).
as of now there is scoring options for single scores or team scores. thats all well and good, but how about a total of how many times a team actually succedes in capturing a flag? total frag count is nice per player, but i dont think that flag captures should be included in that frag score (well more to the point they shouldnt HAVE to be included). total flag capture count per team AND individual frag counts seems the way to go i think.

Based on the CTF features (and the various "game flag" identifiers (or whatever theyre called) such as team spawn points and team identifiers in the actual program itself) there are some other modes of play that come to mind.

4-way CTF
having new maps added in that support 4 teams playing CTF. have the flags set up in a "+" shape (one flag at north, south, east and west) so that there would be cross action happening in the middle. default style could be that only team 1 and team 2 could grab each others flags and the same for 3 and 4. but in the middle its a frag fest w/ everybody blasting each other as they cross paths. a few easy variants on that could make life interesting. imagine if all flags could be picked up by any team. alliances would form, wars would be fought. it would more or less turn into a deathmatch with a purpose for the most part and be less like a "booring CTF match".

Take and Hold (Seige Play)
make a new map with a semi-walled, defendable central point. using CTF team spawn points have each team start on its own side with the objective being that you get youre entire team ALL AT ONCE within that central area, then it acts just like a flag capture blasting the other team. then maybe it blasts you as well (not affecting frag count) restarting the match. or leaves the wounded winning team in the middle to attempt to defend it again against the now full health opposing team. team damage being on for this would be great . something in the central area would have to be a solid object (or maybe just an area of terrain that cant be cratered) so that people would still know where the central point is located at after a lengthy battle once the terrain is chewed up. winning team would be the one who captures the central area the most times. the air strike suddenly becomes one of the most valued weapons in the game!

Hunter (or something)
basically like a deathmatch except you have a single target to hunt down and everyone else is concidered to be "on your team" except for whoever is hunting you. all players start out being worth 1 point (or worth 1 frag, however) and each time someone fraggs their prey (or their hunter maybe?) their own point value increases by 1 until they get fraged themselves, and then their "bounty value" resets back to 1. this would limit each individual persons available targets to 2 people, the one they r hunting and the person who is hunting them. this also means that if those 2 people can figure out who their common enemy is (and even figure out who each other are for that matter) they could team up on the 3rd man. not everyone will be willing to just offer up the info. this would of course involve a slightly different take on the add/ removal of AI bots however to make sure that there was always an even number of players at any given time. but that shouldnt be too hard. weapon modifications of course would be needed for things such as cruise missiles. anything that had too much guidance would have to be either removed or toned down. maybe even loose a frag from your count if you kill a person who isnt on your "list".

Bounty Play (modified Hunter variant)
More or less like Hunter where each time you frag someone your bounty value increases by 1 point but this time its completely free for all. team play or not, however you want to do it. goal is still like a normal deathmatch; to get the most frags, just that some people will be worth more than others. maybe add a number over the players name as to how much they are currently worth. let the person on the map (or more than one if a tie) be represented by a different colored or larger dot.

Flag Frag
kind of like a combination between CTF and a normal deathmatch. have no teams available, its a free for all. have 1 flag set initially at a random point on the map and the objective is to grab that flag and hold it for as long as you can. there would have to be a point system implimented for this as well as a timer addition. the longer you can hold the flag the more points you get. say something like 1 point every 30 seconds or so maybe and 1 point on initial pickup. sure u can frag anybody else and maybe the frags are totaled maybe they arent, overall objective is to get the guy with the flag so u can pick it up and get points for holding it.

Bomb Tag
this idea would probably need new maps since most are too open for this. but have a random person start out with the bomb. the goal is to either touch hulls to transfer it to someone else or maybe allow it to be thrown a small distance, but if its not picked up again in X amount of seconds if you miss then it counts against you. allow the weapons to work same as ever for the most part but opperate under race rules so that you just loose your turret, speed and maneuverability instead of respawning (make the bomb carrier immune to weapon damage?). after the bomb has been in existance for maybe a 3 or 7 minute maximum time frame it explodes taking out whoever is carrying it and resetting their transfer (frag) total. the bomb then attaches itself to a random player. this way you do want to make sure that you get the bomb at least a few times durring a match. and if there is a way to make it transfer by touching hulls then you could even run up and steal the bomb if you wanted. winner is the one who transferred the bomb to the most people.

Paintball
this one is pretty much outside the current capabilities of TM but its an idea anyhow. have the weapons leave paint splotches in the team color on the tanks instead of doing damage. the area of the paint impact could be the size of the projectile. of course some weapons would have to be removed completely (like the nuke) and others would need to be modified (like the flamer because the projectile is so big around) but those simple weapons like the ram drill and machinegun can become your best friend. maybe leave in the push effects of the weapons, maybe not (or just tone it down some). the winners are decided by what percentage of their tank is spotted in whoevers color. say someones tank is 70% covered in blue paint at the end of the match with other colored spots here and there and maybe a few clean patches. then that person would count as 1 frag twards player blue. if you manage to keep your tank at least 60% clean then u can count as 1 frag (or maybe call it a bonus and add 3 or 5 or something) for yourself cause u did so good! if your tank becomes 95% paint or more then you explode and all of your colored paint is removed from all other tanks, you have to start over, while the person who fragged you should get some kind of a bonus added to their final score. the decision over large tank vs. little and manuverable tank now really becomes an issue. do u want to be able to dance around the larger tanks or be able to sustain more paint by using a large tank? people could start teaming up and acting together to get frags this way however they see fit. imagine how many good teams there would be and how many double crosses! your goal now has changed from just shooting someone til they die to doing your best to not keep hitting them in the same spot, you need to cover as much of their hull as u can by comming from different angles and circling around them. there are of course those people who would just run and hide to a different tile of the map, but maybe add in walls on the map edges or something else. TM would first need to be able to add textures to a texture for this to work (scortch marks on tanks and objects for normal play isnt a bad idea anyhow) so that paint splotches could be added to tanks, statues, trees and the ground and would also need to be able to calculate the percentages for the paint. i dont know if this one could be done, but i like the idea.

*******

Aside from additional modes of play what kinds of features would you like to see added? im sure that there are a bunch of little things that people would like to see or that they think should be added in there.

Taunt Key
i for one REALLY want a taunt key. just for sheer entertainment value really. maybe use the number keys to have 9 different preset taunts and then use 0 for a random one or something. immagine the addon taunts that people would come up with, heh. nothing vulgar of course, that would really defeat the light hearted nature of the idea. could even have the shift key work with the numbers as "order commands" or something. sends out a team sound file (canned commands) that says "everyone meet in the center" or "everyone charge" or something such.

Default Models
i know that this one has been addressed before, but it really should be used in one way or another. if someone loggs into a server and there is a tank or weapon that they dont have either the model or texture for there should be a default tank model and probably just the cube default for weapons. have it say something like "unknown file" on the texture or something. this would also solve the problem of invisible tanks ocurring on servers.

and of course cand forget the ability to allow powerups to effect the tanks stats. things like armor and speed.

what other ideas do you have on features or modes of play?

ok, heres the end of my book. hope some people at least bother to read the whole thing

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Let the rocks roll and the battle commence. BZ The RPG. Check out the site! Loads of Tread Marks support and AddOns. (Under Heavy Construction) The non-TM areas of the site have been resurrected!

[This message has been edited by JVortex (edited May 14, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by JVortex (edited May 14, 2001).]

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Dreamer (BWL/MG)
Member
posted May 14, 2001 06:32 PM            

  • you should have used the "list" tag...
  • for default models - it wouldn't be bad to have a message be broadcast from a connecting tank stating the site it can be downloaded from... just an addition, maybe. The problem is the .ent file. You could never connect to a server that doesn't have your tank because tank ents contain quite arbitrary values on many comps and that would allow for serious cheating.
    You could, of course, have the server display a message locally that a player connected with an unknown tank, assign that player a default entity and still broadcast the download site.
    just a thought.
  • flag frag - what if someone simply runs off the map? You'll never get a mite heading straight away from you.
  • paintball - I don't think the TM engine would react kindly if someone tried to actually paint anything on the tanks/trees/etc...
  • 4 way-ctf: Sure it's not possible at this point?
  • take and hold: nice idea.
  • hunter: caox would be worth 100 points then... noone would stand against anyone who connected and simply fragged coax in one of his weak moments. bad idea, imo.
  • Bounty play: Remember the fatman mod for UT?
  • Bomb tag... an exploding pickup? counting frags... ask our mod-makers if that's possible. If, simply set up a server with a few original maps modified waypoints.
  • taunt key: yup. team messages would be nice, too, but I fear spammers.
  • I'm not 100% sure, but this might have been the longest post ever on this BBS.

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coax
Administrator
posted May 14, 2001 07:12 PM            
I love the paintball idea. For two reasons its the hardest to implement and it should be the direction TM should be heading. Instead of expanding variations of having CTFs and DMs. That would be the quantum leap we would expect for TM2 the likeness of this happenning is low.

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LDA Players, Information, and etc...


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JVortex
Member
posted May 14, 2001 08:11 PM            
i always forget about the list tag, at least i know bold

guess i should have ben more clear on the tanks bit. i dont think that anyone should be able to use and anything that isnt on the server. i just meant that if the client lacks a something on the server then the clients PC would display a default mesh.

on the flag frag it would have to be a walled arena. just using the waypoint meshes stretched out REALLY long and taller would work nicely. if you somehow managed to get on the outside you would have to alt+K yourself back in.

i kno that paintball isnt possible yet, but it sure would be cool

and on the other ones some players could throw off the natural balance, but it could still be a blast!

for the most part there are small modifications that would need to be made that i didnt mention in the main post, but i left them out to keep it from being any longer than it already is!! lol

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peeeto
Member
posted May 14, 2001 09:37 PM         
good idea for FAQ, JV. i like all of the things you discuss, and here are some of my thoughts on some of them:

camera view - very good idea. we suggested it before. another setting would be a "softness" setting, so the camera would act like it is mounted on a soft or hard spring.

team frag penalty - i agree, but it should be another optional setting for the server operator to decide whether a penalty is issued or not.

voice chat - excellent idea. there should be some way for players to be able to see other player's voice chat status. maybe a use a "function key" like F2 to bring up the listing. many dialup players (like me ) won't be able to use voice chat.

4 way CTF - i think that this is possible now, with up to six teams

default mesh - TM has need this for a long time! a very generic tank model could be used, and i'm sure that it would be easy for the TM program to be modified so that the mesh is scaled on the client to have the same proportions of the model that it is representing. that would be important IMHO so that targets are shown in representative size.

walled arena - could also use the "sculpture" .ent instead of a "waypoint".

keep the good ideas coming, folks! Jim is bound to come along this sooner or later (hi, Jim!)

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SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted May 14, 2001 10:26 PM            
Basically model TM multiplayer aroung Quake series multiplayer................... That seems to be the direction your going.Would be interesting to see some of that stuff.

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JVortex
Member
posted May 15, 2001 12:42 AM            
ive never played quake or UT, so i dont know really what the comparisons are here. am i just comming up with ideas that are already used?

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Rex R
Member
posted May 15, 2001 01:42 AM            
Re; taunt key
have the msg.s set up as server side that way the server controls the content course we would have to agree on what that should be. don't see a big prob with that since we're doing that with mods anyway. and if you don't like the 'tinned' msg there are still the chat keys

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SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted May 15, 2001 04:24 AM            
Well,Quake type multiplayer(guess because it started it all) is the norm for most online action games,and FPS's have done a lot of the stuff you've mentioned.I would like to see the stuff you mentioned in TM.Hey.....games like Quake are populour for a reason It would be real interesting to maybe have some sort of physical base to protect.Don't nkow how you would do,maybe just build walls like a maze.Maybe some tunnels too so theres more than one route into each base.You could also have stuff like Rogue Spear.Maybe have one team be the attackers,trying to kill the target.On the other side,you have one person who is the target and the other tanks would be there to protect him from the attackers.Have the target have to get from point A to point B and make him real slow.You could also have soccer(or football for our Euro friends ) games using the tanks like they do in Starcraft.2 teams and a ball.Goals on either end.Lots of mayhem
There's lots of things you can do using other games as the blueprint.

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JVortex
Member
posted May 15, 2001 05:51 AM            
i absolutely love the soccer match idea. i was hashing that over with a couple people online a few weeks back and we figured out a way to almost do it, but not quite. the main thing we lack is collision detection for when the ball passes thru a goal line. could make a soccer game now and keep manual score, but would be a pain. i meant to add that in with my initial post up there, i forgot!

also on the taunt keys: the taunt keys would have to be server ran anyhow since the wav files are linked in thru an ent file. but for the most part i think people should leave those alone just to avoid confusion with people saying completely the wrong thing because they arent used to the settings. slight changes would be good tho i imagine.

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SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted May 15, 2001 11:43 PM            
Kinda OT,kinda on topic too.
I have a little program called TextAloud MP3.You can probablly figure out what it does by the name.I got the registered version(with the help of astalavista.com )which has about 12 different voices.You can also control the pitch of the voices and the tone.Works really well.I guess something like that could be used to make the taunt or maybe be used for mods.If anybody wants it,let me know and I'll upload it somewhere for ya.

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peeeto
Member
posted May 16, 2001 12:10 AM         
i want!

put it on Matrix's I-Drive, yes?

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JVortex
Member
posted May 16, 2001 01:13 AM            
i had that prog on here a while ago, it wasnt all that impressive. its a spin off of the MS text to speech engine is all. it does work mostly ok tho. that would be a cool option however to impliment into TM, the ability to have it speak the typed text to you. it may slow down some computers, but its an option right? it could always be turned off if it caused problems.

there is a web based version that does nearly the same thing, and its free (just slower for us 56K people). the site is here: http://www.research.att.com/~mjm/cgi-bin/ttsdemo

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SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted May 16, 2001 04:44 AM            
Your right Jvortex.First time I used it,I had the feeling I was talking to a monotone robot But after I regestired the thing,it unlocked the ablility to control the tone and teach it to pronounce things correctly.There are tons of voices you can use.American,British..........male,female........I'll have to experiment with some of them.Peeeto,I'll upload it to Matrix's I-Drive.Anybody else who decides they want it,thats where it will be.
Oh yeah,I wasn't trying to get it to read the text while playing,I thought it could be used to create a wav file that could be used in the .ent files.

[This message has been edited by SuperUnknown (edited May 16, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by SuperUnknown (edited May 17, 2001).]

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JVortex
Member
posted May 16, 2001 04:59 AM            
oh, i know what you were after, it just sounded like a good idea to have TM read things off to you. seems like it could be done i would think. i was "inspired"

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peeeto
Member
posted May 16, 2001 08:29 AM         
um, SuperU - earlier i didn't notice about the crack... i know that LDA would not like to have this type of discussion on their boards, so maybe you should edit your earlier posts (at least make them more vague). thanks.

p.s. i'm not trying to say that i'm not still interested in it...

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JVortex
Member
posted May 16, 2001 05:59 PM            
[edit]

[This message has been edited by JVortex (edited May 18, 2001).]

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JVortex
Member
posted May 17, 2001 01:49 PM            
the beginnings of the compiled file should be up on my site in the next couple days.

also an idea to add in a few lines in the weapons ent file to teach the AI how to use the weapons effectively

oh, and um... *bump*

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A2597
Member
posted May 17, 2001 03:04 PM            
umm...in Wheel of Time it automatically downloads needed files, could the same work for this?

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JVortex
Member
posted May 17, 2001 09:39 PM            
thank you for the reminder. that was another one brought up a while back. i dont see any reason why Tm couldnt just d load the missing files. the only reason (as far as i know) that it was left out was because to download the models and textures would turn your server synch time from like 30 files and a minute or so into 500K or larger and about 5 minutes or better.

there should be an option to let people at least d load the models and luv files however. granted it may take a couple extra minutes, but if the player doesnt mind waiting then no big deal. then apply a generic texture to the model and youre good to go

could also give the option to download the meshes as well as the textures for those people with high speed connections. dont really know how that would effect the server tho, but its an idea.

good one.

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SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted May 17, 2001 11:23 PM            
What crack are you talking about? BTW,I think this board is pretty much unmoderated now.I wish we could get some feedback from LDA.Haven't heard from them since they announced the direction they were going with the treads and 3d terrain.Come on guys,what are you working on?
I know of a lot of games that connect and download the files you need.Or they could put it as a direct dload on the TM site.

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Dreamer
Member
posted May 18, 2001 07:55 PM         
The original idea (by Seumas, even) was, as far as I remember, to have a webserver somewhere to which the server would point anyone who lacked an addon for (more or less, probably) automatic download. That way the additional server load would be minimal, as the server would only have to transfer a list of all active mesh mods to the client who could then download them someplace else.

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JVortex
Member
posted May 18, 2001 09:13 PM            
well thats a good way to do it. thats one thing i wwas thinking about, what would that extra download load do to the servers performance. d loading from a secondary place would be idea for that.

maybe in the server.cfg file a list of lines on where to d load each lacking file from?

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JVortex
Member
posted May 18, 2001 11:31 PM            
ok, ladies and gentlemen (hey, wait, why arent there any females who play TM?) the combined version of this topis is posted on my site now. so anyone who cares can go check it out.
The link once again is: http://server2049.virtualave.net/jvortex/html/TM/TM2ideas/index.html
or it can be reached from the Tread Marks index page. thanks to all who contributed here (and those who did by email as well). keep your ideas comming!

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Let the rocks roll and the battle commence. BZ The RPG. Check out the site! Loads of Tread Marks support and AddOns. (Under Heavy Construction) The non-TM areas of the site have been resurrected!

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