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Author Topic:   Is There a Map editor?
warlord
New Member
posted May 01, 2001 04:10 PM            
just wondering if There is a Map editor?
if so where/how to enable it?
cheers

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Hawk
Member
posted May 01, 2001 04:44 PM            
No, not yet at least.

IIRC, Longbow was planning to release one at some point, but the public version was never finished. Some people here have (had?) been working on creating their own, but I have no idea whether or not they succeeded.

I return, banners flying, to the world of Tread Marks. *gets shot*

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Temporal Chaos 0wnz j00!

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peeeto
Member
posted May 01, 2001 06:06 PM         
custom maps can be done, but it takes a little work, and texturing hasn't been figured out yet. that being the case, you have to use the texturing from an existing map.

this brings up copyright issues with LDA, but they're nice folks, so don't worry too much about that...

if you want to try your hand at a map, start by preparing the terrain. the specs are: 1024x1024 greyscale bitmap (tileable, preferrably). black corresponds to elevation 0, and white corresponds to an elevation of (255*0.25)meters. greys are intermediate heights.

once you get a bitmap ready, i'll help you place the sculptures & powerups, etc. the "new" map should then be sent to LDA to get their official "blessing" before it's released .

email me with other questions, or post here...

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JVortex
Member
posted May 01, 2001 07:49 PM            
a couple questions for ya. if the maps are esentially bmp's then y is an editor so hard to come out with? i know that theres technical cooridnate setups for spawns, routes and objects, but placement and actions of those points would be esentially text info right?

also, to your knowledge, would there be a way that an elevation of zero doesnt end up having to be in water? and also is there a way to increase the maximum altitute beyond the current limits? its just kind of annoying when you do something like detonate a matter bomb on the top of the ramp that u end up with a flat spot on top. it would be nice in the future as well im sure to be able to design a map with larger hills and clifs

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Let the rocks roll and the battle commence. BZ The RPG. Check out the site! Loads of Tread Marks support and AddOns. (Under Heavy Construction) The non-TM areas of the site have been resurrected!

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peeeto
Member
posted May 02, 2001 12:02 AM         
JV: all the info in the .ved files is binary. it actually wouldn't be hard to cut & paste an RLE-bitmap (8-bit, or 256 colors)into an existing map if you knew where the "old" one ended. the spawn points & stuff could be hex-edited also.

the race routes & texture coords are the big unknowns - although i think that LDA would help out with the format if someone who knew how to program wanted to try (hint, hint, blandy!)

AFAIK, elev. 0 to (?) is always water, and no way (at this point) to go above current limits.

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Rex R
Member
posted May 02, 2001 01:35 AM            
essentially the map info (elevation) is nothing more than a 1024 x 1024 .bmp(8bit). I have even managed to view the maps(sorta) by using a Qbasic program(takes a bit of fiddling to find out where the header ends but you only have to do that once) the rest of the info, so I've heard, is a compressed binary file(that I have no idea how to read)

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Dreamer
Member
posted May 02, 2001 02:04 AM         
Peeeto-> to say that the texturing has not been figured out yet would not be entirely correct... Everything else is not really tricky, either. As yet, I've kept failing at the creation of a useful GUI. Maybe I should just releae something that reads a text file and generates a .ved file from it. Hey, I might just do that.

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Rex R
Member
posted May 02, 2001 02:26 AM            
that would be in conjuntion with a .bmp I would hope. the mind fairly boggles with the idea of writing a text file for a 1024^2 bmp

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Dreamer
Member
posted May 02, 2001 08:35 AM         
Yup, that's bmp. If I remember right (haven't been working on that project for quite a while), at some point I must have decided to only accept 24bit greyscale images as input. That's plain bmp, not RLE'd.

What I think feasible within a reasonable amount of time would be a proprietary description "language" interpreted by a piece of code with two output files - one VRML for previewing, one .ved for playing.
I'm not sure about a syntax checker, though...

If anybody can point me to a good resource for java GUI development (swing, preferably), I might even get around to writing one, but not as it stands now.

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Dreamer
Member
posted May 02, 2001 08:38 AM         
peeeto-> why should new maps be sent to LDA first, in your opinion? I don't think there are any restrictions concerning user-made maps, or are there?

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Random Chaos
Member
posted May 02, 2001 02:27 PM            
Maps...yes. Dreamer knows more then most people in this forum do - he was working on an editor and never finished it.

I don't know LDA's plans for an editor. It is basically being limited by a lack of players thus LDA wants to keep it internal until they can afford to release it.

If you need any maps...er...get a grey scale height map (white high, black low, set color 16 about sealevel) and if I like it I might make a map out of it - just give me some info on what sort of texture you're looking for. Since I was part of LDA for a while I have their tools, but I can't release them to others to use.

I don't want to comit my limited time - but I just haven't had the time to make maps myself .

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Dreamer
Member
posted May 02, 2001 02:41 PM         
I might be done sooner and better than I expected... Had a look at the Java AWT today - seems Ill have to port my code to java and then I should be able to release a usable map editor within a matter of months - as soon as I get around to start working on it. I really like the AWT better than anything Micrsoft, even though that means everyone will have to have java installed...

In case anyone's interested in my current project, go see http://www.tmvr.de/tmvr7/vrmlbase/vis.wrl
I've been working on that during the last few weeks and it should soon be in a usable and nice-looking state. Note the maps and mods sections.
In case anyone can point me to or send me some nice textures for that one, they would be more than welcome. Best viewed with cortona from parallelgraphics, as usual - other VRML browsers can produce weird results.
Please do send me addons, I've finished a database system that's going to let me add them even while people are browsing the site. So - if you're looking at the site and miss something that you think ought to be there, go ahead, send it along and I'll plug it in ASAP. Requirement: at least one screenshot and a short description per mod and (for now) the correct folder structure in the .zip file containing the mod.

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peeeto
Member
posted May 02, 2001 08:33 PM         
Dreamer:

i mentioned LDA because the only way i know how to make maps is by editing an existing map. that means that some of LDA's original work remains in the file (namely, the texturing info.), and just to be sure that i wouldn't step on anyone's toes, i would pass it by LDA first.

also, nice VRML at TMVR7! i like the format! i never got a chance to talk to you about TMVR5, but there was a little problem i had in viewing it. from the default view, the last two blocks don't fall into place when i hit the center button. but, if i move back a little before i press the button, then all of the blocks move into place.

as far as someone (you ) developing a map editor that bundles the .bmp with some text files, i think that's an excellent idea. some of the binary data looks like a regular .ent file, anyways. if you have some spare time, can you describe how the texturing works? i'd be interested to know, just to think about texturing new maps before a map editor is created...


general programming question:

i'm not satisfied with any of the plugins i have access to in my paint programs for creating tileable images. i'm thinking about making my own "tiler", and would like to be able to read a bitmap into a 1024 x 1024 array to change it. does anyone know how to implement this in C or C++? would that size array take up too much RAM?

from what i remember about programming, the values stored in the array could be integers (0 to 255), and i can still perform arithmetic on the integers as if they are real #'s as long as the variable storing the result is declared as a real #, like so

real# = (1.25*integer1 + 0.75*integer2)/2

correct?

also, i would like to be able to generate a preview before the changed bitmap is saved. anyone know how to do that? thanks in advance!

[This message has been edited by peeeto (edited May 02, 2001).]

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Dreamer
Member
posted May 03, 2001 03:09 AM         
peeeto -> that last question clearly belongs in the programming forum...
1024*1024 bytes should be no problem under anyhing but DOS and not a big one even there. Concerning the map texturing, maybe we can arrange a chat of sorts?

Oh, and it might be neccessary to "cast" the result's type back to integer:
x=(int)y
And even that might complain if you don't feed it pseudo-integer values: You might want to round to the nearest integer - but you should do that anyway once you're fiddling with type conversions of that kind, IMO.

[This message has been edited by Dreamer (edited May 03, 2001).]

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peeeto
Member
posted May 03, 2001 05:19 AM         
yes, i thought the same thing after i posted the questions - i will definitely move this discussion to Programming

re: chatting about texturing, email me about what is a good time for you. i'm very busy for the next few days, but maybe later next week?

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