|
Author Topic:   SERIOUS BUG? Invisible AI tanks...
Dreamer (BWL/MG)
Member
posted February 05, 2001 06:27 AM            
I've been experiencing the following problem:
Some AI tanks apparently are and stay invisible until you frag them once!
This occurs on (at least) two different occasions (and I dunno whether it happens in every case):
-Joining a server (at least one without humans, haven't seen it on populated servers yet)
-AI tanks replacing humans who leave a game.

Could this be related to the dynamic adding and removing of AIs? Maybe the model for the AI tanks is not properly loaded when the AI first joins in mid-game. Just a blind guess - it never happened with old releases, so I guess it should have to do with the new pieces of code.
I know I'm not the only one who's seen this happen. Please, folks, post your experiences here.

------------------
----------------------
Founder of BWL
Admin for www.tmvr.de

[I'm searching for a new provider. Need full java + cgi support plus lots of traffic allowance at a reasonable price. Help welcome.]

IP:

peeeto
Member
posted February 05, 2001 08:25 AM         
to quote Tom: "it's not a bug - it's a feature!"

IP:

swisher
Member
posted February 05, 2001 11:22 AM            
I wonder if the server was running modded tanks that you didn't have on tyour system?

------------------
Swisher
BWL/MG

IP:

coax
Administrator
posted February 05, 2001 12:38 PM            
something similar has happened to me too. But with humans and AIs they are completely invisible to me and then the next second i get fragged by them. And i didn't even see them coming 'cause they are not on my radar or anything, after i die i can start seeing them again. I always thought and still think in my particular case its because I use a dial up connection and stuff gets belayed. But I've notice it only happens when i first join a game, and its a rare event like once or twice a month. Thats pretty rare for how much i play TM.

------------------
Biography Website

IP:

JVortex
Member
posted February 05, 2001 02:48 PM            
I just ran into that for the 1st time last night. It was a little strange. But the invisible tank didnt frag me before I could see it. scorched my paint a bit with a laser tho. after about a minute or so of confusion I could then see the tank and see it on the radar, but it showed as green (as in on my team). I then wondered why this strange tank who was on my side was firing at me. if i got close to it (really close) it would fire at me again but keeping my distance it didnt fire, even tho it was on my team...

after another 5 minutes or so it started acting normally. make of this what you will.

------------------
Let the rocks roll and the battle commence. BZ The RPG. Check out the site!!

IP:

Skandranon
Member
posted February 05, 2001 05:01 PM            
I've been fragged by inviso-tanks at least three times. Last time I was chatting, far away from the action (on the Ramp, I think?) and watching my radar the whole time in case someone got close. No one around, I keep chatting - suddenly my tank explodes and another /player/ - not AI - appears and had lanced me with a RamDrill. I can't remember who it was, but it was someone I'd played many many times against and I've seen on the forum.

I never saw the tank on radar, and didn't even see them right in front of me. Lag? Not likely, I'm on DSL and had an under 200 ping. At least it doesn't happen often - certainly not enough for me to get mad at the game.

Addendum I just thought of:
I have also seen the 'invisible tank due to not having correct model' problem. That case just appeared as a weapon floating in space, spinning around randomly and flying at you firing. Hilarious.

Would it be possible in a patch to include an 'if model for item X not found, use generic placeholder model' option, so you KNOW there's something wrong? A solid white or something generic tank model, or generic gun model?

Skandranon

[This message has been edited by Skandranon (edited February 05, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Skandranon (edited February 05, 2001).]

IP:

Sailor
Administrator
posted February 05, 2001 07:37 PM            
I have seen this problem also. I joined a game and was watching the radar and heading towards the action when all of a sudden I get fragged and nobody is on my radar anywhere close to me. I do know it was an AI because the kill info shows who fragged you, but definitely no one anywhere close. This has happened about 3 or 4 times over a month or two approximately and only in the new versions of the game. Hope this helps some.

IP:

Nemzad
Member
posted February 05, 2001 08:04 PM         
The only time I have had this happen to me was when I was playing on the OZ server witch has mods. I had the weapon mods setup on my comp but not the tank mods. I could see the AI tanks weapon but not his tank becouse of this.

IP:

Spooky
Member
posted February 05, 2001 09:32 PM         
I have seen this also, and may know the cause, or at least I have made an interesting discovery. While booting up the Spook House server, one of the last thing it scrolls in the window is a message about "cant find entity tank liquid3" or 8 or something, anyhow, there is a liquid tank that it cant find. I dont know if this is only on my machine and I have a bad file or what, but i have "seen" this invisible tank on my own server.

ps. anyone have the TM-Mods-Aug-01-200.zip? I lost mine, I have the Feb 5th zip, but really liked some of the other weapons better, like that freakin jump gun

IP:

JVortex
Member
posted February 05, 2001 11:29 PM            
Spooky - the aug mod pack can be found here: /forums/archive/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000785.html . swisher linked this at me in a post on that page. If by some chance the link doesnt work i still have it on my hard drive here. get ahold of me on instant messenger (JVortex) and ill send it to ya.

------------------
Let the rocks roll and the battle commence. BZ The RPG. Check out the site!!

IP:

SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted February 06, 2001 12:31 AM            
I've noticed the same thing.Sometimes when entering a server that is in progress,all tanks are invisible for a minute or two.

IP:

coax
Administrator
posted February 06, 2001 12:58 AM            
its not only for your server spook's house. It has also happened to me many times on other servers too. I kinda remember it happening to me on the 1.0 servers as well.

------------------
Biography Website

IP:

=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted February 06, 2001 08:19 AM            
Level 22 of the ATARI CONSOLE game Space Invaders way back in the early 80's was an invisible invaders level, there were 122 level to play though in 2 colours and with 1 sound channel, now im sure that if i can complete that, then toms "feature" should be seen more as fun.

Besides which its prob not a bug at all, prob just 159 (which im not running yet and i dont have this problem) that is ignoring the tanks skin.

As for the AI, well its obviously coded in Florida cos it cant decide what the hell its doing † LMAO †

§8Þ

-=[/2]=-

IP:

LDATom
Administrator
posted February 06, 2001 03:25 PM            
I've never seen this myself, but I'll keep an eye out for it. It sounds like for some reason the client never received the packets telling it about the existance of the enemy tank. The end result is that all updates for that tank are ignored and it won't show up on your screen till it is destroyed and recreated (triggers a new "creation" message). Of course the server knows about it so its still able to kill you.

The network layer is supposed to be sending out the required information in a reliable manner, but perhaps there is a very rarely occuring problem there. I tend to doubt that its in the network layer since even a rarely occuring problem would still be very common. More likely it is something like an AI tank being created (after dying) at the exact same time a player connects and somehow the player is missing the creation message.

In any case, I'll keep an eye out for it.

Tom

IP:

Random Chaos
Member
posted February 06, 2001 05:36 PM            
Refering onto what Tom said, I have had occasions when weapons and such fail to appear until well after the time they are fired are and destroy a target. This usually happens when getting very poor ping and substantial numbers of packets that are routed via less than optimal routes and often take as much as several seconds longer to reach than most of the rest of the packets...

Dreamer - try doing a traceroute to whatever server you are having a problem with and checking two things: Look for highly erratic ping values (fluctuations of over 1000ms from surrounding pings) and check for packet loss percents. I know my ISP has bouts of really high packet loss and misrouting for about a five minute interval every hour or so with the rest of the time being a nice smooth low ping connection...you could be having a similar problem that has caused this problem. The AI tank's header that Tom mentioned may simply be taking the long way arround the earth to get to you due to some random factor on whatever pipe your ISP sends you down to get to that server you have this problem with...and thus not show up for a long time if at all...

--RC

IP:

Random Chaos
Member
posted February 06, 2001 05:38 PM            
(dang...that last sentence there was a real run-on...)

IP:

Dreamer (BWL/MG)
Member
posted February 06, 2001 05:54 PM            
RC: Quite improbable, I think. Seumas once explained the basics of TM's network "protocol":
Packets are sent via a priority queue, plus, a "received" message is sent for each packet. If no such message is received by the server, the packet will be re-sent. Something like that, at least.

So: visual Weapon effects are bound to be low-priority, so they may be delayed on a poor conneciton, maybe even dropped. Tank positions and especially existence should be very high priority (if not as important as physical weapon effects like a tank being hit) and should not be ignored whatever the reason. This can only mean that either the packets the client needs to acknowledge the existence of the enemy tank are never sent or that the client receives the packets, but never evaluates their content.

My first blind stab is something like each tank bearing a unique identifier for network purposes and a possible ambiguity in those identifiers causing tanks to be ignored network-wise. Their weapons would still do damage, as projectiles would have their own "namespace" including a tag for the "parent" that spawned them.
Might be something like that. Might not be something like that. Dunno. Destruction of a tank would cause it to be deleted from the active tanks list and reentered upon resurrection - this time with a unique identifier.

That would be the places in my source code where I would look first, anyway - especially since LDA have quite probably changed those parts for the auto-team-filling option that came with 1.5.9(?).

My 2p.

IP: