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Author Topic:   Virtual Showroom News...
Dreamer (BWL/MG)
Member
posted December 14, 2000 06:52 PM            
I've posted some stuff on which I'd like to hear comments over at www.tmvr.de . Constructive criticism (people who don't understand the word "constructive" should ignore the term criticism and advance to the next sentence) appreciated. I'll try to answer all questions you might have.
Lighting is not yet (or anymore, rather) in, as I need to come up with a brilliant idea to cope with the fps drop caused by many light sources in one scene. (Though it does look cool when lit)

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Founder of BWL
Admin for www.tmvr.de

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peeeto
Member
posted December 15, 2000 09:31 AM         
one suggestion right off the bat (without looking at it yet) would be to raytrace render the objects with lighting first, then use the resulting images as textures for the unlit model.

with all those textures, i don't know if that would be much faster than a lit model (it should be), but the above is a technique that is suggested in my VRML 2.0 Handbook

more to come after i browse the world for a while...

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Black Widow Lance all the way, baby!

[This message has been edited by peeeto (edited December 15, 2000).]

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Dreamer (BWL/MG)
Member
posted December 15, 2000 09:41 AM            
are... you... nuts???
What do you expect in terms of download size - about 100Megs? Of course I could prerender everything (POVRAY should be best for that, I think) and then make textures from shots of those static scenes... But lets say a pretty standard texture has about 3k size. I think that's pretty low-detail, but nonetheless, let's say 3k. Now imagine a world with _very_ few faces that's supposed to look like lit by several light sources. Each face needs its own texture, about 50 bytes in VRML. plus 3k image size. Let's say 10000 faces. That's 3 Megs - just textures and badones at that. forget it. Plus, I think I'll want dynamic light sources. Your book won't tell me a way to animate textures with scripts in order to have them look like dynamically lit, does it?
Nope, no way.
Maybe I'll just have to cut down on the lighting side....

Now, where was I, ah, yes. Evolutionary algorithms in virtual reality. very interesting article. Should be.... *moves along, muttering to himself*

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peeeto
Member
posted December 15, 2000 11:33 AM         
ha ha! calm down dreamer!

i don't know much about VRML, but in POV, you can define a "block" and then re-use in different locations, which cuts down parsing time...

i noticed that your model was made up of copies of basic shapes (hexoginal (sp?) looking from above). now, if each "hex block" was supposed to have a light suspended from the ceiling, each would be lighted approximately the same... so you could re-use bitmap texures for each ceiling, wall and floor.

this would take care of static point lights...

also, check out 3DExploration. i just noticed that a raytrace renderer is included (haven't played with it much yet). it's quick & might help...

BTW, 3DX is great for viewing & converting all types of 3d models... i just emailed them to suggest including support for TM .low and .luv files...

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Black Widow Lance all the way, baby!

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Dreamer (BWL/MG)
Member
posted December 15, 2000 11:46 AM            
Hmm... I'll try to explain again. Yes, the scene is made up of similar or identical bits - mostly. But as you should know, the arrangement of light sources in three-dimensional space _has_ an influence on the overall lighting: same number of identical light sources vs. different locations of those light sources relatice to each other means that areas on an arbitrary plane outside the space the actual light sources take up gives a different brightness "map" on that plane. That's the problem. I could, of course prerender _one_ of those cells, maybe even two. But I'd _have_ to render _all_ of them, since they all are differently, if similarly, lit.
See?
And I am calm. Perfectly calm. Now, take that away, please, yes? I won't hurt anybody anymore if you just put that down. OK? Yes, I thought you'd.... no. NO. NOOOOO!

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peeeto
Member
posted December 15, 2000 12:11 PM         
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gotcha!

yeah, i understand that >1 lights interract... but rendering 1 cell (with additional adjacent lights outside of that scene) and then using that texture for each cell would definitely be more pleasing to the eye than no lights... you could even add a few dynamic light to the scene after that...

(thinking as an engineer) always gets me in trouble esp. with my wife

talking of approximations reminds me of an old joke (bear with me - i can never remember them or re-tell them right):

an engineer and a mathemetician were presented with a unique opportunity: a beautiful naked woman was placed across the room, and the first one that could reach her could claim her as his own. the catch was that for every step taken, the next step could only be half that of the last.

the mathemetician exclaimed in frustration "that's impossible! i'll NEVER reach her!"

the engineer just smiled and said "heh heh. I'll get close enough!"

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Black Widow Lance all the way, baby!

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Dreamer (BWL/MG)
Member
posted December 15, 2000 02:26 PM            
Got a goodie for ya, folks....

The fury at its best.

[edit]typo...[/edit]

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Founder of BWL
Admin for www.tmvr.de

[This message has been edited by Dreamer (BWL/MG) (edited December 15, 2000).]

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peeeto
Member
posted December 15, 2000 03:05 PM         
niiiiiiiiiice!

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Black Widow Lance all the way, baby!

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Dreamer (BWL/MG)
Member
posted December 23, 2000 06:30 AM            
Got an idea for site navigation improvement(?) recently - coded it - put it up. I'd like comments, ppl. (Over at the Showroom, test section)

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Founder of BWL
Admin for www.tmvr.de

[This message has been edited by Dreamer (BWL/MG) (edited December 23, 2000).]

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GoldAnt_Number1
Member
posted December 23, 2000 03:50 PM            
I know this may sound like a stupid question but where is the furry? And why is it floating?

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_O-) Can't forget those Water-Proof Smileys at the bottem can we _O-)


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coax
Administrator
posted December 27, 2000 05:20 AM            
lol!! Good point

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swisher
Member
posted December 27, 2000 01:07 PM            
Fury is available on RC's site (Tank Downloads): http://treadmarks.3d-unlimited.com/mods/main.shtml

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coax
Administrator
posted December 27, 2000 07:38 PM            
i think the point is me and ANT don't see fur

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Kaeto
Member
posted December 27, 2000 08:26 PM            
It's "fury", not "furry".

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GoldAnt_Number1
Member
posted December 27, 2000 08:27 PM            
no no no no no no no i mean i can SEE!!!! THE FURRY TANK I KNOW WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE n i can see it right in the picture. But the problem is that im wondering which map or place the furry is parked at

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_O-) Can't forget those Water-Proof Smileys at the bottem can we _O-)


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Kaeto
Member
posted December 27, 2000 08:37 PM            
Dreamer made that.

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GoldAnt_Number1
Member
posted December 27, 2000 08:39 PM            
oh so he made the background

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<:) Can't forget those smileys wearing Dunce Caps at the Bottem Can we <:)

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Rex R
Member
posted December 28, 2000 01:32 AM            
the fury is an 'aftermarket' tank not in the original game you can dl the tank from RC's site(or maybe he has a link to noper's site) thing is you can't run it in multi unless the server has it also

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