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Author Topic:   capture the flag; dream or reality?
coax
Administrator
posted December 09, 2000 03:47 AM            
I'm going to go for length in this message, just because its late and what the hell. (Hmmmm can i even say hell anymore on the bboard oh well RC can always tell me to edit it off.) Well, I've always heard talk about like 'yeah' lets make a capture the flag option and 'yeah' LDA is going to try to make a capture the flag option. But lets analyze this reasonably and hopefully logically.

First off for a capture the flag game obviously there are 2 flags, maybe more , and the objective is to obtain the other teams flag. But lets analyze this 1st by looking at how to 'frag' the tank thats coming after your team's flag. What do i mean you say? Well this shortly, although in a DM game the objective is to frag-frag-frag a capture the flag game requires more finesse. I've noticed that if i didn't want anyone to frag me its possible just to run around the track and dodge bullets and flame-throwers or anything really. So the only true factor in playing defensively is being mobile, if your ever still it would be easy enough for anyone to kill you even with the pea-shooter. So perhaps if someone had grabbed the flag or was trying to grab the flag it would only take one shot of the 120cannon or any other weapon to make him restart back to his team's side. ( should i have said him, oh-well its not like I've ever seen a girl play on TM)(Although there was that one player Mrs. Happy but i donít think it was a girl)

Now lets analyze a capture the flag through a terrain perspective. For a good capture the flag game there would have to be discernible sides of the map one corresponding to one team and the other corresponding to the other. But the maps that are currently available for TM don't seem to be designed for this. Although don't count them out yet as I will get back to it later. So first off a new style of map would have to be made so it would be clear to everyone when you crossed over from your team's side to the other team's side, maybe this could be done by the radar, for instance having the green dot that usually resembles your tank and have it turn yellow when you enter the other team's side. This may bring up an even better point why have radar at all for this type of match? No radar you say are you smoking something coax? No I'm not this could add a bit of excitement into the game only if this addition to the map design was added. For instance you could use the maps that are already designed for TM and like in race mode you have to go between the two pillars so in the capture the flag mode you have to travel down through those pillars evading enemy team tanks trying to kill you. So in that way you wouldn't really need radar since you know that an enemy tank would have to go by that check point in order to complete the game. Notice how in this model it is now possible to have just 1 sniper kill the fun of the game because you can't go anywhere without being automatically shot at whenever you try to make a run to and from the border check points. (noticed how i said checkpoints indicating maybe there could be more then one path you could go to get back to your base.) But this is how team mates come in handy, you could get a fellow team mate to obtain a mass driver and plow and blast away all the snipers from your path.

Now we are to a next level of complexity the fruition of this dream, this style of game play would only work if there is a good group of already online players in a server ready to play. But even now at TM's most popular server NGI I can still go there and find no one else in there at times. Although i admit this has been harder to do. The reason i say there has to be a good grip of people available to play at a time is because of the limitation of the AI tank. The AI tank by design is a sometimes-great fighting machine. I've seen it blast some of the best players with style. it's rotating head and constant need to get some type of weapon from a pickup station makes it formidable. Especially if it pick up a laser or any type of weapon that gets located onto the hood of the tank. Yet i started out with talking about the limitation of an AI tank and thats how i will conclude this paragraph. As already obvious the need to consult with team mates on strategy and timing is crucial for the successful completion of a capture the flag round, since an AI is an AI it is incapable of talking to team mates on the best strategy to follow. But AI's could still be useful as some type of patrol tank that travels one teams side as alligator do in a castle. (or was that crocodiles.) In conclusion the only way a capture the flag game would be successful is if the TM community was at a large enough size so that there would be enough players at any given time to partake in the game.

{{Also if you have any comments or would further like to delve into the complexity of a capture the flag mode please do so. This by no means is a say all to what is needed for a capture the flag mode only a start in what is needed. I'm sure I've made mistakes in my logic in some parts of this essay. But be nice on the critique and understand that I wrote this rather late at night.}}

So as you can see as of now, we as a community are not ready for a capture the flag mode. But a capture the flag mode is possible if not destined to happen as we evolve from a small community of players to.....(only time will tell)

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Kaeto
Member
posted December 09, 2000 09:14 AM            
I'd rather see just a plain old straight CTF (I.E. no special rules), but make flag carriers only move 66% or 75% as fast (chop acceleration and max speed by that much). Look at TFC - I can scout and run around the enemy base for 10 minutes without dying, but as soon as I get the flag - it's time to run, because I have the WHOLE enemy team coming after me. You also don't want capping to be TOO hard - ideally, a cap every 5 minutes at least keeps the action going.

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Dudymas
Member
posted December 09, 2000 09:50 AM            
Also, we may want all tracking weaponry to aim for the flag person, so all nukes, wasps, mrl's, matter bombs, and cruisies and what-not would show you where to go, i'd like for the radar to disappear, and the arrow too... You see, who says you have to take the flag to a certain point, why not have a time limit for the flag instead, so after you capture the flag, you must keep it for about 1 minute... this would allow more of a hiding to progress, and make players watch their flag more, AND it would allow AI's more power since they could find the flag holder on a whim. Well, also, what should it look like, can we have multiple flags, one for each team??? or could we have only two per game, AND STILL FURTHER, why not allow tanks to pass the flag, we could just have a game of steal the flag, one guy runs around with the flag, and they must stay within a certain area of the map as shown on radar, and people try to steal the flag and take it out. Oh boy, i have a LOT of ideas for this.

We could even have capture the Thermonuclear BOMB!!! yeah, that'd be sweet, then the other team has to RUN away instead of chase, and the other player who stole the bomb has only 2 minutes or so before it blows, or he can just pull the trigger... WOOOOOOO, that's CTF TREAD MARKS STYLE! Yes, we need innovation, novelty, originality, whatever you want to call it, but TM is different, and always should be that way, . We could have just capture the super weapon, where all sorts of different goodies spawn at the teams home that they must defend... such as Napalm BOMB (not just the flames come from the sky, i mean bombs that when they hit the ground, they explode into flames) strikes, super long turret held diggin drills, A fast firing plasma cannon with seeking projectiles, extra long chain lightning (wonk, or shadow keeper) guns, and whatever else super powerful, abused, sickeningly fragerific weapons. Heh, that's my two cents, whatever it was worth...

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A2597
Member
posted December 09, 2000 10:24 AM            
OK, I'm going to swipe a few ideas from Wheel Of Time (Grate Game BTW) citidel mode.

There are three maps in this mode.
1: the home land
2: the inbetween land
3: the enemy land
4,5,6, optional, other enemys, joined by the same inbetween land.
these are joined by travel gates in WoT, but we could giure something else out. There are no speed restrictions if you get the flag (Have to find it first) but when you do, make it transmute the color of the flag onto the tank. (So people know who to protect/kill)
There can be multiple flages, up to four, whoever gets four first wins.
A person can grab their own flag to hide it. (Dig a hole bury it, cary it to your enemys land, bury it there somewhere etc, take it under water where less of it is visible, etc).

Well, comments? The hard part would be figureing out how to link from one levle to the next...

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Random Chaos LDA
Member
posted December 09, 2000 10:58 AM            
We are looking into possibilities for a CTF/CTS game (thats flag or sheep). Nothing will be comitted until after we see how well TM sells in stores.

--RC

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coax
Administrator
posted December 09, 2000 07:16 PM            
any other comments?

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Random Chaos LDA
Member
posted December 09, 2000 07:43 PM            
From me? Nope. I'm not getting into the details of it until we decide if we are doing it or not.

--RC

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Kaeto
Member
posted December 09, 2000 07:44 PM            
We should all just go out and buy 50 copies of TM

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coax
Administrator
posted December 09, 2000 08:39 PM            
now we are on to something, just distribute it as x-mas gifts

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Random Chaos LDA
Member
posted December 09, 2000 09:23 PM            
Hmmm...I like your suggestion Kaeto

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GoldAnt_Number1
Member
posted December 10, 2000 01:28 AM            
Also you could have it so when your on enemy land you can shoot them to. Otherwise they come n storm u and your history 1 ai tank comes and u can't nuke it, bomb it,kaboom it......etc
and he just slowly kills u off.....also i think its a great idea that you can pick your own flag up and hide it. But i think you can only go so far from base otherwise u would hide it and it woulds be impossible.

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Random Chaos (TC)
Member
posted December 10, 2000 10:10 AM            
(posting as a player this time)

How about if we make it so that any tank carrying the flag has its weapon disabled. Also make it so that main gun ammo is unlimited (or 40,000 or so) so that you never worry about running out of it. If you don't have some default weapon in a CTF game there will doubtless be problems

Hmm. That first part - it could be made that the Flag is just a weapon that bolts on who's projectile is the weapon again (thus causing a free weapon to sit arround). Obviously ammo=1 - that would make life EASY. I'll have to suggest that to Tom

(back to official LDA)

Any CTF/CTS that we do make will include CTF/CTS maps.

--Random Chaos
The TM player this time
aka Random Chaos LDA

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JL
Member
posted December 10, 2000 01:30 PM            
Could make a "kill the tank with the flag game" or "keep away". Use the flag mesh for a weapon. Have one ammo and if you fire it can be passed to another teammate. Or if your fragged it gets left behind.
That might be doable already. Just have to have one flag weapon spawn when the map loads. Using the spawn points on a race map it might be possible.

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A2597
Member
posted December 10, 2000 11:37 PM            
I ment it so you can fire any where, just have the middle map so you can have more points joining enemy forces.

Hmmm, I like the idea of being able to shoot the flag, just have good aim to get it to your tem mate.

also, if possible, how about a feature where the person with the flag shows up a different color on the radar. (Team color perhaps). That way your buddys could help you, and the baddies could find you.

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coax
Administrator
posted December 11, 2000 02:43 AM            
i really like the capture the flag idea.
That is all

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Neil McRae
Member
posted December 11, 2000 04:27 AM            
Have a look at Insane by codemasters on examples of how CTF could work. Insane is alot like treadmarks - the guns. [although treadmarks networking is far superior].

Cheers,
Neil.

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coax
Administrator
posted January 12, 2001 10:16 PM            
well its a reality, so I'll leave it at that.

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SuperUnknown
Administrator
posted January 12, 2001 11:32 PM            
I can't get both versions to play along together,so I don't really have an opinion.Just running 1.5 till the upgrade.I did get to play a few CTF games and thought it was really good.I also like the fact that your flag has to be at your base before you can officially capture the enimies flag.Makes for some good fights if both flags are out.

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=DNX= Matrix
Member
posted January 13, 2001 01:15 AM            
Well i played CTF tonight after upgrading to 1.5.6 (mainly becasue i wanted a game and it was the ONLY server available)

:::: what the hell happened to homelan and domino ::::

and i have to say that auto fragging the tank when the enemies have captured said flag is daft and quite honestly lead more to frustration than enjoyment. CTF in unreal if far better laid out; at least your player doesnt explode when the enemy gets the flag, u just continue defending n stuff.

i realise im probably the only one with this opinion about it but hey no-one said life was perfect. I shall continue to play DM's and races, but the ctf thing for me is a dead loss - sorry jim.

perhaps with no autofrags i could get used to it, but simply exploding when a players scores is infuriating, especially if your just about to pick up a health and theres no-one around while you guard the base.

and thats all i have to say about that, ill get shouted at i know, but hey this is a discussion forum and without pple that disagree there wou;d be 100% acceptance. oh well, let me know what you sort.

just one other thing - how do people that buy TM from now on know to get the update patch, they will simply fireup the game and betold WRONG VERSION, is there no way some message can detect their version abd say UPGRADE AVAILABLE AT WWW. blah blah blah ?

-=[/2]=-

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GoldAnt_Number1
Member
posted January 13, 2001 11:55 AM            
Does it say on the menu screen go to the web site for updates....etc I know most peoples won't think of that but it does ay that. But nobodys expecting an update. How bout a thingy that checks for an update every month? every two weeks or so.

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%) Can't forget those smileys that have been stareing at the computer to long at the Bottem Can we %)

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