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Author Topic:   tank shape question
peeet
Member
posted August 04, 2000 09:36 AM         
ok - maybe only LDA can answer this, but here goes:

i'm trying to make a tank model that will be as stable as possible when sitting still, and i started wondering how the game was programmed for the interaction between the tank models and the ground surface?

does the program take into consideration the acutual geometry of the bottom of the tank? (a 3-legged object is stable on an uneven surface, where a 4-legged object is not)

or for ground/tank interaction, are the tank models just simplified as bounding boxes to speed up calculations?

and for LDA and others who have experimented with different tank designs... what geometry seems to provide stability (while still or moving)?

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Dudymas
Member
posted August 04, 2000 12:12 PM            
yes, this is something that has been bugging me too peeeet, what ever do you do, LDA?

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LDA
Administrator
posted August 04, 2000 04:29 PM            
It's done with bounding boxes...

...so an overhang will extend the entire collision box...

....geometry of the bounding box makes minor differences...e.g. the Dwarf can handle uneven terrain better than the Claymore

A compact square shape is the best starting point when designing a tank.

Jim

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peeet
Member
posted August 04, 2000 04:44 PM         
thanks jim...

are the bounding box and collision box the same thing? and on a side note, is the same box used for collision detection from projectiles?

and, finally, is the gun object included in calculation of the bounding box? (a really long gun would make the box (and target) that much bigger?)

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LDA
Administrator
posted August 04, 2000 06:08 PM            
Yes and yes...

Both the turret and body have collision boxes...

The gun doesn't have a box....so can protrude but will go through terrain etc.

Jim

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Hawk
Member
posted August 04, 2000 07:02 PM            
Yeah we found that out when stupid Kaeto made the 'sniper tank' with a half mile long barrel and it like stuck through a hill and out the other side :P

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I'm about to drop the hammer, and dispense some indiscriminate justice!


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Kaeto
Member
posted August 04, 2000 08:50 PM            
LOL NOPeR made that barrel... and hey, it worked, until I got my current sniper-thingy, by peeeto...
But in the end, I think it's gonna be the barrel...

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Dudymas
Member
posted August 06, 2000 01:40 AM            
LOL, this sounds fun, are you SURE you can't include that tank on the mod?

Hawk, are you getting grumpy, don't turn into a tracer bullet dude, okay?

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Hawk
Member
posted August 06, 2000 09:31 AM            
TOO MANY POSTS ON THE BBS HAHAHEHAHAHAHAHA
:P

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If you can't speak English, at least learn how to say "YOU DIE FOR ALLAH!" in Arabic and fire an AK-47.


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Dudymas
Member
posted August 06, 2000 02:28 PM            
see, Kaeto? the BBS bug was just a futile attempt made by hawk to stop posting on the Treadmarks BBS for a while

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peeet
Member
posted August 06, 2000 03:59 PM         
talking about the lasersight, right? - if it's included in the barrel mesh, .luv texturing the tank model will be a problem (w/out xtra steps). so it will have to be textured as liquid, and thus the sight will have to be the same color as the tank. that's no good!. leave it with bauble#1 - i like the bouncing around, and that can be toned down, right?

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Kaeto
Member
posted August 06, 2000 04:55 PM            
I haven't had much luck, the sniper is still almost useless...
Why would modelling it as the barrel be so hard?

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peeet
Member
posted August 07, 2000 04:18 AM         
take a look at a bitmap for a .luv texture. it's basically the front, back, top & side views of the tank. without knowing how LDA'a LUV texture wrapper works, i _think_ that the a gun barrel 300m long would take up most of the bitmap, and cause the rest of the 2D representations of the mesh to be reduced to a really small area...

why not leave it with the bauble? can the bouncing around be reduced a little?


and i didn't really like the sniper tank either. maybe its projectile needs some guidance (just a little) for really distant targets. and its reaload is so slow - maybe it needs to be faster?

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Cell
Member
posted August 07, 2000 06:52 AM         

[This message has been edited by Cell (edited March 02, 2002).]

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peeet
Member
posted August 07, 2000 08:34 AM         
yeah, i agree. and kaeto's snipertank packs a powerful punch, but the reload is soooo slooowwwwww, and it was frustratingly hard for me to snipe a target from 800m with the tank.

i thought, since sniping is all that tank can do (it's got no turret rotation and it's armor is low), it would be more fun for a player to be able to hit more tatgets from afar. otherwise, all the ATM players would pick the rockettank, right kaeto?

and i think the projectile could be modded so that the guidance doesn't kick in 'till, say, 600m. and only a little guidance, so the shot has to be pretty close to start with...

[This message has been edited by peeet (edited August 07, 2000).]

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Kaeto
Member
posted August 07, 2000 09:39 AM            
Yeah, I think I can do that...
It's a hitscan weapon, so getting guidance not to kick in right away may be tricky...

It shouldn't be noticeable.
And peeet : There's nothing FORCING The textures to work that way, AFAIK... you should just be able to use a 32x32 chunk of the bitmap wherever you have room for the sight...
I like it bouncy too, but it's HARD to aim...
Ahh, well I'll keep messing with it... I think it's quite a bit better than it used to be...

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peeet
Member
posted August 07, 2000 10:47 AM         
ugh - i dont know enuf about weapons modding to even know what hitscan really means... maybe you could include firing off a projectile and give that the homing & damage properties, and use something else for the visual?

re the textures: i was thinking of the way LDA's .LUVer might work: input a mesh and it spits out the .luv file and bitmap template automatically. i imagine that the regions of the bitmap might be scaled according to the objects in the mesh automatically also. (LDA - any input on how the .LUVer works? and when you could release it?)

after learning more about UV texturing from talking w/ NOPeR, i understand now that you could force any part of the bitmap to be the texture for any part of the mesh... you would just have to be as savvy as he is to make it work

can you tone down the bouncyness of the laser sight/bauble? it's pretty OK as it is now, i think...

and what do you think about giving it some sort of guidance (to make play for the sniper more interesting?)

p.s. what does AFAIK mean?

[This message has been edited by peeet (edited August 07, 2000).]

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Rex R
Member
posted August 07, 2000 12:32 PM            
As Far As I Know. if tm's tex mapping is anything like some other games you could map the entire tank to 1 pixel leaving plenty of room for the detail on the barrel. also you can prolly chop the barrel tex into convient lengths

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Random Chaos (TC)
Member
posted August 07, 2000 12:49 PM            
Rex R - you are correct, and on some weapons that is similar to how they did it. With the Nuke and Matter Bomb, the front tip is extreamly detailed, though the rest is less so.

As for a their mapping program, they may release it with the update that they are talking about, but I know its still a couple months off...

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Random Chaos
Site admin for http://treadmarks.3d-unlimited.com
Forum admin for Terrain Deformation Tread Marks Forum
Member of Clan Temporal Chaos
randomc@3d-unlimited.com

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