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Author Topic:   Modification rules on MOD page
Hawk
Member
posted January 22, 2000 07:18 PM            
You said...
quote:
This means you can't simply make an editing change to a Bitmap, Sound, or Model that is Copyright by LDA and then redistribute it, as it is a derivative work and still under Copyright.Imagine if someone's "modification" was simply all the files from the Full version with a few
edits in each, and you'll get the drift.

Does this mean that, say, if I wanted to put together a specific tank skin (like my personalized Nemesis skin) and call it Nemesis Blackhawk, that would be wrong? I'm a little confuzzled by the gist of that. What I tried to do with the Demo, prior to finding out I can't, was add the Nemesis Blackhawk to the list of tanks, using the standard Nemesis model, but with a modified skin. This would allow my tank to be seen by players, separately to the standard Nemesis skin. Anyway...Maybe I'm just being dense, as usual....
Or, do I need to ask for specific permission to make a NemBlackhawk tank to put on the list separately of the Nemesis?

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Linux linux linux linux...

[This message has been edited by Hawk (edited January 22, 2000).]

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LDA Jim
Administrator
posted January 22, 2000 08:46 PM            
No, it wouldn't be wrong to "put together a specific tank skin" as your personal skin. What would be wrong, would be to change one of our skins and distribute it.

Modifying the existing art and distributing it is where the copyright protection comes in.

We would have to give permission for altered art works from the game to be distributed.

The OK thing is to paint your own skin from scratch, using the existing skins as inspiration if you like. Then the skin is "your skin" and can be distributed without worry.

Of course, you can alter things as much as you want for use on your own system...

...copyright kicks in when you want to pass those altered images around.

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Hawk
Member
posted January 22, 2000 08:55 PM            
My skin is just a re-painted Nemesis skin..so you seem to have answered my question, I guess

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Hawk
Member
posted January 22, 2000 09:02 PM            
The point of having multiplayer skins is so other people can see them and say 'Oh, there's (insert player name here)' Can that be done with this game if it has to be called Nemesis?

Or would you just change the Name value in an attached .ent file to say 'BlackhawkNemesis' and leave it to that?

[This message has been edited by Hawk (edited January 22, 2000).]

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LDA Jim
Administrator
posted January 22, 2000 09:12 PM            
The idea is to make the skin your original work, plus change the name of the skin to something else, ... just using the nemesis model.

Then players can still choose the original Nemesis or the new one.

Seumas will be adding more information to the Mod page.

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Hawk
Member
posted January 22, 2000 09:22 PM            
Ack...I'm being verrry stupid and confused tonight...even more than usual. Anyway...This should show a picture of BlackHawk Nemesis.
Could you tell me f it would be okay to use...And yes, the copyright bit has been there since I made it.
http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/albion/932/TankRamp.jpg?popup=1

[This message has been edited by Hawk (edited January 22, 2000).]

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Blacktooth
Member
posted January 22, 2000 10:34 PM         
Ok I'm dense too. Let's try an example.

I open a default tank skin in paint and draw a big black BT on it using airbrush or something.

From what you said above, LDA. You wouldn't want me to give that to a friend/clan?

Seems like you could say, "just as you can distro .ent files we'll let you distro .bmps too BUT THATS ALL!!!" no *.exe's, etc. I understand you don't want the game "given" away but edited bmps seem about as harmful as ent files/models and such.

I can see capitalism and this internet thingy do not mesh well at all. LOL These are interesting times indeed.

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Random Chaos (TC)
Member
posted January 22, 2000 11:19 PM            
(The below is my personal opinion only)

I'm not dence like those above but I have to say that in all other games that I have been involved in, altering the colorings on skins, etc was never considered a bad thing. In fact everyone always did it...the best and fastest way to make moded skins...

Let me state 2 examples:
1: Tank Skins and Weapon Skins...
- Take an LDA skin, change the colors so it has a "gold" or "wood" or "liquid" appearence added to it, but since it was based on the original skin by LDA it is not distributable to use with LDA's meshes...

2: Laser shots...
- Currently the laser has 3 colors included in TM: Red, Blue, and Gold. I am planing to make a color laser server mod that basically takes the Laser beams and just color rotates them so that there are now 20 or so different laser colors - all based on the original LDA laser BMP...but again this would not be allowed without permission...

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My opinion is that using the BMPs on LDA meshes should be allowed - since the meshes have to be with the full game, but moding a mesh of LDA's or distributing a mesh of LDA's should be not allowed without permission. The BMPs are vertually worthless without the Meshes they are for...so restict the Meshes only and you have effectivly restricted the BMP distribution to only those with the game themselves...

The above is what most games allow - no distribution of the Models, but distribution of the skins.

I fell this is what it should be changed to - since you did make this game to be "Easily modifiable..."

Thanks for any consideration,

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Random Chaos
Site admin for http://treadmarks.3d-unlimited.com
Member of Clan Temporal Chaos
neym@rpi.edu

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LDA Jim
Administrator
posted January 23, 2000 10:15 AM            
We've been talking this over and will try to clarify things in the mods page.

Random: Basically we agree...we plan on adopting the "industry standard" for mods, so modification and distribution of skins should be OK, but no modification of models.

...So it should be OK to stamp logos on skins if that is the industry norm for games such as Quake...

....of course the bottom line is "free"....no selling...

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Hawk
Member
posted January 23, 2000 10:59 AM            
Ah, I get it...As long as we recognize who made the original skin that I remade, (i.e. putting the copyright information on the skin somewhere), and don't sell our modifications to make a profit on the things that you made, it's okay to, say, grey-scale a skin and recolour it like the one that I posted. Ok. That's logical.

If I'm interpreting it right, thanks for clarifying.

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Blacktooth
Member
posted January 23, 2000 11:36 AM         
Sounds like we are in agreement then LDAJim. Selling copyrighted material is a big "no no" in my book, so no worries there mate. Anyways I heard about these guys down under that had this great mod, namely TFC, for some game called Halflife. They are now employed by the makers of Halflife, Valve. Now that is a success story all around IMHO.

Mod away RC!!!

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LDA Jim
Administrator
posted January 23, 2000 12:25 PM            
Hawk...yup!

Blacktooth...exactly ...and with the easy mods that can be done to the full version of Tread Marks [...without requiring programming skills...] if someone or a group creates a cool game mod...then that's when the "permission" discussions start and sales are arranged

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LDA Jim
Administrator
posted January 23, 2000 12:38 PM            
With the added UV mapping and map editor, and the ease of adjusting ent files, the full version of Tread Marks makes a pretty descent game construction set.

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Random Chaos (TC)
Member
posted January 23, 2000 01:31 PM            
Ok, good - I don't have to go back and rethink some of my weapon mods...

Glad you agree with that...

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kenny
Member
posted January 23, 2000 07:40 PM            
ok jim does that mean that the shockwave meshes that i created for my meganuke are copyrighted to me? should i ask that if anyone uses my mesh they need to add "# this mesh was created by kenny" or "# this mesh is copyright of kenny"?

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LDA Jim
Administrator
posted January 23, 2000 11:35 PM            
Kenny

Yes, they would be copyright to you, and you can declare the copyright and ask that it be acknowledged.

For example, if we published a modified Tread Marks that contained other peoples images, we would have to include them in the credits and arrange for payment or royalties.

...and conversely, if someone used the Tread Marks engine to create a game, it would be a derivative work and they would have to include us in the credits and arrange payment and/or royalties.

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