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Author Topic:   Nice demo!
Yupa
New Member
posted January 16, 2000 08:02 PM         
Hi there, just downloaded your demo, and I must say, awesome graphics!!

I have two suggestions, no, requirements that would make this game at least playable... First you need to implement a target reticle... so we know where the hell we're aiming at.... second... you need to let us move the mouse up and down to aim up and down... you fix these two things and your game will sell! Take notes from Quake3 and Unreal Tournament.... these two games are where you want to be on the combat side.... You have the graphics, the physics and the race part down.. you just need to tweak these two control aspects and you have a winner. Seriously... I've been playing first person shooters since Castle Wolfenstein... And just upgraded my machine to a P3 733 w/ Elsa Nvidia GeForce 256 so I can play Quake3!!! This tells you how much I play these types of games. The very notion that you can race tanks AND kill each other interested me the most about this game... the race part was cool, the graphics were awesome, but the battle part fell way short. What you may not realize is that the battle part of this game is where you need to be to even sell a decent amount of copies, and have a loyal following.

Here are some other suggestions that would push it into a bestseller.. that suggestion about letting you hold multiple weapons would make a lot of sense. And if you ever played quake or unreal, you'll know how important having an array of weapons can be... also being able to see each weapon as you mount it on the tank would be cool... people would run away from a tank with all 9 weapons pointing at them!!! oh yeah some extra armor, maybe some extra speed/maneuverability runes would be nice. You need to reward the player and give him the "GREED IS GOOD" aspect of the game so he wants to keep playing to attain godlike status. hehe. Even a shield would be nice... Like unreal tournament, where you have a certain amount of shield when you pick it up, and when it depletes it diminishes... a stealth rune would also rock.. I see you implemented it permanently on the small tank, but what good is it if I can see that little bastard a mile away?? You should make it very "Predator" like... very transluscent and almost invisible... that would make people want to use it more. Maybe make it appear more solid the more damage it takes on. Even having a hovertank (dunno if you have one already in the full version), so it could skim off the water would be neat.

Other things to consider is: Dunno if you have different armor points on different sides of the tank, but real life tanks have most of their armor in the front, the sides have less, and the rear and top of the tank usually have the least amount of armor.... Showing damage on individual sides would have made more sense then a generic "I'm up the creek" bashed tank look. dunno if you've ever seen a modern battle tank fire it's weapon, but the round stays in the air a hell of a lot more than your main gun does.

Another aspect of the racing side of games that I've always loved were: The ability to upgrade your vehicle in different aspects... Engine, Tires(Treads), even armor and specials that you can pick up would be awesome.

Visible armor upgrades would rock. Example is that if you pick up an armor upgrade on the ground, your tank bristles with a little more armor than before.... Maybe let you upgrade three times for a monster looking tank. Even slowing the tank down because of the extra armor would be cool. Maybe if you have an upgrade, and you get hit, that extra upgrade breaks away. These kinds of aspects to a game make people play over and over and over... having a simple goal such as making your tank the biggest baddest tank would be enough for me to buy it!!! I'd love to see an OGRE style tank with 9 different weapons pointing out of a mega-armored chassis!!! Oh yeah!!!

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Random Chaos
Member
posted January 16, 2000 09:05 PM            
Ok, may I ask, how do you put a aiming retical on a third person veiw?

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Kaeto
Member
posted January 17, 2000 02:49 PM            
Easy... Rainbow Six has an awesome one!
but this is NOT a FPS! it is a 3P action game!

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LDA Seumas
unregistered
posted January 17, 2000 03:18 PM           
If you're having difficulty with the Mouse Look, try toggling Turret View (M) and Funky Camera (Delete) while Mouse Look (L) is on. It acts differently depending on the states of Turret View and Funky Camera.

As much as Tread Marks gameplay was inspired by that of Quake and Unreal, we didn't want to copy all aspects of their gameplay directly, such as multiple weapons, fixed spawn points for weapons, etc. It wouldn't be very original if it was simply "Quake with Tanks". I did add one big carrot for the folks into "GREED" though, with the Super Ammo power up (the shiny ammo box). If you get a rare weapon you like (say a Nuke, heh), run around the map looking for Super Ammo boxes, which are very common, and you can get 2 Nukes, 3 Nukes, 4 Nukes, etc.

An aiming reticle would be tricky with the way all the different weapons handle, and the third person view. I also didn't want to start bringing the game towards a super high-tech simulation style with too many fancy high-tech doodads. I like the idea of down and dirty, seat of the pants, aiming by eye style low-tech tank combat. Hard core sims like M1 Tank Platoon 2 cover the super automated high-tech tank warfare angle just fine.

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-- Seumas McNally, Lead Programmer, Longbow Digital Arts

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NightQwerty
Member
posted January 17, 2000 04:05 PM            
Debunking the 'greed' idea, I think that, since the weapons are so powerful, and it takes a while to get a good one if you spawn at a bad spot, it would really suck if you got all that stuff together and got cruise missiled. And what would you do about Shadow Keepers. Souped up tanks are hard enough to kill already, without all the armor, invisiblity, and other stuff. it just doesn't go well with the game.

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NightQwerty

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Yupa
New Member
posted January 19, 2000 12:44 AM         
Wow, didn't expect the lead programmer to reply! cool! Thanx for the reply! Well, after playing it some more, it has a quality to it...

I still think you should REALLY think of implementing the idea of letting people have the option of enabling the tank to aim up and down... I promise you I can destroy anyone who has their's fixed. From playing quake and the like I'm used to having freelook on, and controlling the tank while aiming up/down is not a problem for me at all.

There were so many times I missed out on a great shot at a tank because my angle was wrong... that's plain retarded. hehe. Of course this is my opinion... I feel the tank just doesn't live up to it's capabilities when you have to sit in a crater to aim up. If these tanks were in a real war they'd get their butt kicked. Even world war 2 tanks could aim up and down!!

How about this for an idea?? A powerup in which for a limited time your turret will auto-aim for you so you can concentrate on the race or on maneuvering around things?? What about TAG TEAM MATCHES where two players play in a team where one aims while one drives??? Now that would make me salivate! hehe.

But PLEASE consider enabling at least the option to turn on vertical aiming! It would add a new dimension to firing and I promise you a lot of people would thank you for it! That way both people are happy. the ones that want fixed and the ones that don't.

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Yupa
New Member
posted January 19, 2000 12:53 AM         
Oh yeah by the way....

I never meant for you to COPY aspects of Unreal or Quake, but you do need to see what makes people buy these games and implement them into this one. It's sorely missing something big on the combat side, but of course that's just me. I don't find myself satisfied playing this game especially because of the fixed aiming, but also the weapons... In particular the main weapon. This gun needs a little more umph. It wouldn't be so bad if you could compensate by aiming up but the darn thing just peaters out way before any normal modern battle tank round should. The balancing in the weapons is off too.... There's weapons I would never use, while others are just way too powerful. If you notice Unreal Tournament (no copying, just a comparison), you'll notice that each and every weapon has it's place, and no weapon rocks too much without some kind of risk to injuring yourself. I know I know.... I'm complaining too much. I apologize to everyone that thinks this game is perfect, I just don't see it that way. I think I've played too much quake/unreal/doom to enjoy the shear simple beauty of this game. hehe.

BTW what kind of different tanks are in the retail version??? Anything cool? I don't even know what difference 20-30 different tanks can be... what is the difference?? That seems like a lot of tanks.

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Kaeto
Member
posted January 19, 2000 08:22 PM            
"these tanks would get there butt's kicked"

Show me a real tank that can take a nuke 50 feet away and survive...
Or a 120mm shell for that matter
Measure that out and (if you have one) compare it to your 9mm pistol... Phatness!

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LDA Seumas
unregistered
posted January 20, 2000 02:51 PM           
All I can say is that the game isn't meant to be a simulation. Yes, a REAL modern tank can totally destroy another tank with a SINGLE well placed main gun round from kilometers away. If you want gameplay like that, there's M1 Tank Platoon 2, and I'm sure there are other games similar to it as well.

The main gun was intentionally made weak in Tread Marks so that it would generally lose out in a direct fire fight with a bolt-on weapon. If you fill up your ammo clip to 16 shells, you can definitely waste a few tanks with the main gun, especially if you aim for the rear. It takes more time to kill with the main gun though, which again puts it at a disadvantage against a quick-kill bolt-on. The main gun is also a finishing weapon, so that if you can't quite kill someone with a bolt-on, you can finish them off (maybe while they're running) with your pea shooter.

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-- Seumas McNally, Lead Programmer, Longbow Digital Arts

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Blacktooth
Member
posted January 20, 2000 06:33 PM         
Ahh Yupa. My first few times playing this back in the beta days left me with the same impression. But after playing it a while and going through it critically (I always think of ways to make things better) I understood how much thought they actually put into this. The weapons randomly spawning but in given locations is brilliant. No more learning a "path" to run as in Quake or any other FPS I can think of. Also this was meant to be fast-paced so the armor and single-weapon only factors are pretty good as is (although I'm getting to like aspects of Thunderdome more every day, its REAL fast-paced). You have to think about what strategy you want to use AFTER you get a certain weapon not the other way around. There is way more strategy in this than any other FPS DM style game I can think of.

As for vertical aiming... man that debate has been around since day one. At first I disliked it as well. All I can say about that is it adds a bit more skill to the mix. If you really like the game keep playing and you wont even have to think about aiming. Pay attention to the terrain and when you die think about how you could have come out on top. The diverse range of weapons makes up a lot too until you get the lead just right (it varies with ping). I'm a pretty good shot now and I can say it with pride, for it is due to practice and diligence. (Clydesdale - You were damned good last night. Didn't seem like you needed up/down to me)

On a final note, one of the main contributors to me staying with TM is the TM community (don't get all teary eyed guys, I still want to kill all of you). In almost every match everyone is there to have fun and not just be a total prick. I've been in some good duels with many people and most of them are real good sports win or lose. This adds to a game tremendously IMHO. We all hate losing but being a baby about it just makes you look stupid and detracts from the overall experience (I know I used to play EQ)

Hope to see ya around Yupa (try Beyond Thunderdome server for a crash course in aiming)

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