This topic is 2 pages long:   1  2  |
Author Topic:   Raise/lower barrel?
Clydesdale
New Member
posted January 14, 2000 10:30 AM            
What the hell is with that? You can't raise and lower the main gun?...how stupid is that? If it had that feature I would but the game I think but that alone makes it not worth it.

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nitestalker
New Member
posted January 14, 2000 10:35 AM            
is the game that bad without vertical turret?
try a crater launch or a hillside launch

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Clydesdale
New Member
posted January 14, 2000 11:08 AM            
That sucks...I want to be able to raise the gun, not have to find a hill to perch on....

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Random Chaos
Member
posted January 14, 2000 11:41 AM            
If you had been playing the game when it was in the Beta2.x test version, we had a BIG discussion on this forum about whether or not to have vertical turrent movement.

Here are the prior forum discussions about the turret level (back discussions - some quite old):
/forums/archive/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000070.html
/forums/archive/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000047.html
/forums/archive/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000010.html

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Random Chaos
Member of Clan Temporal Chaos
http://treadmarks.3d-unlimited.com
Randomc@3d-unlimited.com

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Clydesdale
New Member
posted January 14, 2000 04:24 PM            
Well I didn't see any other reason in those posts NOT to include vertical barrel movement other than it seemed like it was too much of a bother. It's not a tank game if you can't lob a shell across the map and nail someone while you are perched on a hill. I mean, wthats the point of even having tanks....all they are now are cars with big guns....could have been called skidmarks. It's not as if using your the thrid person makes it too hard to aim as were some of the arguments because then you/they just says "use the land to aim" Uhh..excuse me but whats the difference between raiseing your barrel and using a crater etc to get the same result? Seems to me they are the same except using the land is highly annoying. Ultimately having vertial barrel movement gives the skilled player more precise control of their weapon. In a simmilar theme I think there need to be more guided type weapons. 90% of the weapons are useless unless you get a lucky shot...I much prefer the maingun to almost all of the other weapons except the lazer and nuke/matterbomb etc. At the VERY least you should have included verticle barrel movement as an option the user could turn on or off.

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kenny
Member
posted January 14, 2000 04:30 PM            
quick answer:

we want action not to have to aim the barrel

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Clydesdale
New Member
posted January 14, 2000 04:35 PM            
Well if actually trying AIM is too hard for you then that is what the option would be for now wouldn't it?

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peeet
Member
posted January 14, 2000 04:41 PM         
here here.

i think the game is just PERFECT the way it is! i remember sitting up on a hill (thanks to a matter bomb) and lobing shells down on an opponent ~300m away while he was hanging around a spawn point waiting for a weapon... he had NO IDEA where the shots were coming from! anyway, finally got a good bead on him and fragged his butt!

once you get used to the game, you just KNOW when you're lined up with a weapon! try the avenger while on a hill (use in short bursts)
and practice alot with the dirt ball...

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Clydesdale
New Member
posted January 14, 2000 04:51 PM            
Nothing better than lobbing a shell way over and nailing someone.

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LDA Seumas
unregistered
posted January 14, 2000 08:03 PM           
Clydesdale,

"It's not as if using your the thrid person makes it too hard to aim as were some of the arguments because then you/they just says "use the land to aim" Uhh..excuse me but whats the difference between raiseing your barrel and using a crater etc to get the same result?"

I disagree... When the gun is fixed to horizontal, you can use the orientation of your tank hull and turret (large hunks of metal) to judge how your barrel is aimed. If the barrel could elevate independently, you would have to judge your aim by looking at the thin gun barrel(s), and I think that would be quite difficult in third person.

As for weapon guidance, if more weapons were guided there would be no skill involved in combat. It would be grab weapon, fire, kill. As it is, you need to use a little skill, and with most weapons, get in fairly close as well. I dislike tank or mech games where all combat happens at extreme ranges, so in Tread Marks, most of the time you are forced to get up close and personal (see the RamDrill).

Feel free to add guidance to any weapons you like by editing the .ENT files in the Entities\Projectile\ folder though. The game can be tweaked to taste quite substantially.

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-- Seumas McNally, Lead Programmer, Longbow Digital Arts

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kenny
Member
posted January 14, 2000 08:31 PM            
i completly agree with you seumas. actualy most of the new weapons that i have created arent guided....

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Random Chaos
Member
posted January 14, 2000 10:32 PM            
Agreed...

I have no problem hitting someone halfway across the map using the main gun - as I'm sure others will attest to when I hit them suddenly unexpectedly...

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mumbojumbo
Member
posted January 15, 2000 05:01 AM         
I LOVE the ramdrill, getting up real close, and then BZZZZZZTTT!!!
LOL

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kenny
Member
posted January 15, 2000 06:02 AM            
my personal favorite is my MEGA NUKE everythign is done on it accept the skin for the missle

BTW whoever did the skins for the models in treadmarks....MAD PROPS! you make what seems to be an impossible task look easy(skinnning isnt my strong point though)

anyways....back to the missle, i am gonna release it tomororow cause its to cool not to release it since its basicly done.

quick explination of it:

BIG explosion(bigger then nuke) complete with 4 new shockwave models and textures

new missle model and skin

there would be more but i have allready pushed the entity chain to its limits and i dont have the img compiler so make custom fog and smoke(oh well)

this is right after the shockwaves happen....

[This message has been edited by kenny (edited January 15, 2000).]

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Clydesdale
New Member
posted January 15, 2000 08:47 PM            
BAH! Missing the point!!!

Backing up a sec, I agree that having more guided weapons would make it too easy to kill people but..I dunno...half of the weapons are next to useless unless you are ontop of someone. I suppose that gives the game a bit more action but I personally would just like a bit more control over some of the weapons. Kind of going back to raise and lower issue most it would be alot better if you could say raise and lower the fireing angle of the concussion missles...just for an example.

Back to the barrel....I wont let it die!! #1 I don't want the be able to raise and lower because I can't hit people by doing it the way everyone else does...I can and quite often do providing the target is nice enough to sit reatively still and let me zero in on them. I can't be the only one who finds it annoying that you miss a guy because you were too busy trying to jockey your tank into just the right position...trying to even hit people at a distance with the main gun pointless...and don't tell me how bad ass yall are and how you do it all the time..you don't...if anyone hits anyone else at range it's because either #1 They were sitting almost still like morons letting you get into the perfect position or #2 Just blind luck.

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kenny
Member
posted January 15, 2000 08:57 PM            
i think the answer to the barrel question remains no...as far as the guided missles and such...i got 2 words for you"WAIT FOR MODS" oh well thats 3 words...you get the point...

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Random Chaos
Member
posted January 15, 2000 09:10 PM            
Well, you could always take the ThunderDome meathod of 30 Cruise Missiles per pick-up...(I think they have since dropped both the number and the damage back).

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Clydesdale
New Member
posted January 16, 2000 01:58 AM            
Bah...You know, since I've been playing TMs I've never ONCE gotten the cruise missiles. That's not what I'm on about anyways....don't want homing..just want more control over where they go.

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kenny
Member
posted January 16, 2000 03:06 AM            
yeah that would be cool but it might be hard to control.

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Random Chaos
Member
posted January 16, 2000 03:27 AM            
Well, you can always make a mod where the weapons are mildly guided - enough so that if you are slightly off it would hit - he only thing is it would mess up rear vs front aiming...since where you shoot is not where it lands.

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mumbojumbo
Member
posted January 16, 2000 07:41 AM         
Having played only one 'tank sim', I can only comment on the fact that I had tremendous difficulty lining up the turret and barrel to try and hit a target, especially while moving. Much of the terrain of TM gets craters and dirt mounds which makes it even harder to shoot at all, much less line everything up for the perfect kill. I wasn't around for the discussions of the turret issue, but personally, I think the game is solid as it is.

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LDA Seumas
unregistered
posted January 17, 2000 05:19 PM           
Clydesdale,

While it would of course be easy to settle the issue if there was an optional vertical turret control... My feeling is that if someone is having that much difficulty hitting targets without vertical aiming, they'll end up having just about as much difficulty with vertical aiming, especially with the third-person view. And realize that everyone is playing on the same playing field, so if there was a useable vertical aiming option, you might be complaining that all the top players and AI tanks were just sniping you silly from long range.

I think the game is less about precision aiming and long range sniping, and more about fast movement and tactics. It's like a 2D dog fight; keep your energy (speed) up, and maneuver yourself into the best firing position you can (on the enemy's six, preferably "crossing his T" with your turret sideways), then lunge for the nearest good weapon once your ammo runs dry.

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-- Seumas McNally, Lead Programmer, Longbow Digital Arts

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Clydesdale
New Member
posted January 17, 2000 07:08 PM            
Bah, missing the point again. I don't have any problem hitting people withe the main gun, I do quite well..I pull off some slick shots quite often...I'm quite good at aiming with a static barrel, I'd just rather have the use of verticle motion. Not so much for long distance hits but for more like when you are chasing someone and can't hit them because the main gun actually has a very short range on level ground...if someone is more than 10-15 tank lengths away you'll most likely hit the ground. Also be better for when someone races up a hill...as it is going up a hill pretty much makes it so that if someone is on yer tail you are not going to be hit by the main gun. If you could raise up the barrel then running up a hill would not keep you safe

It's a good game as it is but I don't see how adding the verticle movement would take away form it...It would only make it better.

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TanKBaLL
New Member
posted January 17, 2000 09:16 PM         
I have been playing this for a fairly short time now, so I dont have alot of exp to draw on... From my limited exp, I have found that I have had the best success with the game when I treat it as an FPS... rather than a "tank racing game" (no offence Seumas, I like what ya got here... I think that the question of the vertical turret movement is a question of the speed of the game... Do you want a game that is slow, and sniper like (with vert movement)? Or rather one that has more rushing and "grunt" tactics? I had similar problems in my learning curve that everyone else did... I almost put the game down because of the "feel" of driving a tank (could that be addressed for newbies in someway?). But once I started to get into the game, I was pleased to find that there are tactics that can be used to gain an advantage, just like any game (I dont need to go into them do I?). As for not being hit when going uphill... one of my fav moves is following people uphill!!! You get an easy shot if they keep climbing, on rear armor!! How can you not like that? The idea (I think) of the game is not nailing people you cant see...leave that to the hardcore tank sims (boring!). The whole point is deathmatch and racing. And the best way to implement that is the current config. Vertical turret movement would make the interface cumersome for the style of game that has been created here. But if you still want to frag people from way off, find yourself a missle of any kind... drive around picking up the extra ammo boxes...and leave the poor bastards wondering why you picked them as targets...

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chrisb
New Member
posted January 17, 2000 09:44 PM            
what about putting in the option for a slight auto-aim for vertical movement.that way if your trying to aim while doing 130 any little bump wont throw you completly off. Also how about giving the tanks some mass so that they flatten the small bumps?

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