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Author Topic:   TM... Wheres the beef?
hunter64
Member
posted January 13, 2000 06:35 PM            
Hey, I have been reading the messages you guys have been sending back and forth. I tried the demo, whats the big deal? Sure the graphics are good and the sound rocks. But I found the tank control to just cause me frustration. Targeting is next to impossible and steering is a joke. I thought tanks are suppose to be able to move their turrets up and down as well as from side to side. Whats the point of being able to go 120mph if when you try to turn the tank slides for a couple of miles. What kind of physics are represented when you get the same effect when your moving 10mph or 100mph either way you can't turn for crap. And another thing what good are all these awsome weapons when from what I could see you can only hold one at a time. I would like to cycle through and gather them for later use. The funny thing is it seemed that the AI players got all the great weapons and could target my ass on the fly with no problem. And whats the deal with the main gun? it sucks I may as well spit at the screen. I spent most of my time running and trying to get a descent weapon before someone wasted me which would have been no big deal except for the fact that the tank moves like molasses and steers like a runaway freight train. I did manage to waste 3 hours playing and I had fun but dammit I would like to be able to have a chance against the enemy. Instead of having to fight to get control of the tank. Can somebody help me figure out what is the best way to control these bloody tanks. I have a MS sidewinder pro steering wheel, and a descent joystick, but I prefer to use the mouse keyboard combination. Of course this setup worked great for Recoil, which BTW is an excellent tank game the problem with that game was the fact that the tank controlled too well and once you got the hang of driving it, the game was no challenge, because you dont have to deal with slow response from steering and acceleration, and guess what the turret move up and down as well as side to side, wow what a concept.... But who wants to be frustrated just trying to drive the tank, if I could bring my Recoil tank in this game I could waste everyone in seconds. I hate games that try to be difficult by making the controls unresponsive. You may as well just turn the monitor off and push all the buttons, good luck. I dont mean to seem upset and I dont want to knock something that you all seem to enjoy so much, but frankly, I have played better tank games. I just wish this game was better because I would like to have as much fun as you guys. I have not made my final judgement because I have not tried the racing mode yet, but I hope its better.

Enlighten me.
Thanks.

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Random Chaos
Member
posted January 13, 2000 08:10 PM            
Most of the things you have mentioned were heavily discussed durring the beta as to how to go. The Tank speed is due to it being a race tank. The Vertical Turret being absent was due to nearly unanimous vote not wanting it. The controls can be annoying - and the mouse is nearly impossible to use - thats why I use 100% keyboard. As for multiple weapon pick ups, that was again a nearly unanimous vote not to include it. If you had been using the beta test, maybe you could have argued your point and gotten that changed (as it was, I wanted the main gun an each strap on point to be able to use a weapon seperately - thus having 4 weapons equiped at once, but 4 different classes).

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Random Chaos
Member of Clan Temporal Chaos
http://treadmarks.3d-unlimited.com
Randomc@3d-unlimited.com

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Hawk
Member
posted January 13, 2000 08:49 PM            
I've been playing this game since Test 2.1 came out. As for your disillusionment with the control scheme and it being impossible to aim, play with me sometime and watch me target and destroy. The tanks are racing tanks, over a ton each, and they're GOING to fishtail and skid if you try to turn at 150 mph. Try it with a car sometime (uh..not that I have...cough cough) and see how much you skid and fishtail.

Tread Marks is my absolute favorite game, and the demo is addictive to me and about 100 other people =). And I'll be ordering the FULL version as soon as I can...But that's just my opinion.

Ok............

Hawk, Clan Temporal Chaos

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kenny
Member
posted January 13, 2000 10:50 PM            
my views exacly hawk(appept i have been following it since test1)

i think its absolutly hilarious to make the spawn weight of the airstrike abuout 99% and the ammo 3000 and reload time .1 and watch the map turn into a swimming pool in 10 minutes

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Random Chaos
Member
posted January 14, 2000 04:12 AM            
Kenny - you forgot 1 thing: Make the projectile entity have the following lines:

crater = 50
depth = 20
scorch = 0.7
ExploEnt = Nuke2
ExploEntHit = NukeMissile

OR:

ExploEntHit = Spewer/Armaggedon

Now you have a real lake


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Random Chaos
Member of Clan Temporal Chaos http://treadmarks.3d-unlimited.com
Randomc@3d-unlimited.com

[This message has been edited by Random Chaos (edited January 14, 2000).]

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kenny
Member
posted January 14, 2000 06:00 AM            
actualy right this minute i am working on a mega nuke(it shoudl be done by tomorow) it has a all new model for the missle and explosion inclusing a real shockwave and more particle effects oh and the crater radius is 250 and 40 deep with .6 scortch(you think that is huge wait till you see the explosion)

it will be epic(trust me)

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mumbojumbo
Member
posted January 14, 2000 06:23 AM         
You stated "what's the big deal?" and yet at the same time you said you played for 3 hours? It must have impressed you somewhat to play that long. Not that I've ever driven a tank, but it does seem that a tank isn't going to turn on a dime like a car would. I never played the other versions, so I can't comment on the weapons stuff, but I played the game once and immediately ordered it. I've played Recoil too, and that is an awesome game as well, but personally, I think that's like comparing apples and oranges here. Just my $.02...

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hunter64
Member
posted January 14, 2000 09:52 AM            
You all make good points, I have not given up on this game I will just keep working on it, maybe once I get the hang of the handling I will like it better. BTW I noticed you guys talk alot about editing the code or something, I mean adding weapons and stuff like that to the game you all must be real "techies". Thanks for not slamming me for my negative vibes.

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NightQwerty
Member
posted January 14, 2000 03:46 PM            
Negative vibes are fine here, hunter. They are about to be nullified.
I would like to say that the controls are great. It takes skill without being impossible. There's an excellent range of tactics to be tried with them. The problem with up-down movement of the turret would be that the game wuold turn into a slowpaced camping artillery game. Not having the vertical turret forces people to get close up and in your face, heightening the action. You can still lob projectiles and missiles in the air if you want to, just set yourself on a spot where the terrain tilts. But have you noticed how everything just sorta keeps going a lot of times? You either have to tilt very little or have a very underpowered gun, and then people would still complain.

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NightQwerty

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kenny
Member
posted January 14, 2000 03:52 PM            
lol....in with my entites the game seems to be a nuke and air strike war(well you have to see it to belive it)

i will take some screenshots late today

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LDA Seumas
unregistered
posted January 14, 2000 08:50 PM           
Editing settings in the game is easy, all you have to do is go into the Entities folder and open the .ENT files in a text editor. The full game comes with documentation on what all the parameters do.

As for turning being slow, try turning hard left or right _without_ accelerating at all, and you will turn much faster than if you try to turn while accelerating (e.g. just left arrow instead of left arrow plus up arrow). That's how tanks work. You can use this to your advantage with the low friction to power slide through most turns, by first turning hard to point in the right direction, followed by accelerating hard through the turn.

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-- Seumas McNally, Lead Programmer, Longbow Digital Arts

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kenny
Member
posted January 14, 2000 11:01 PM            
or you can increase the acceleration paramater in the ent file. for some reason adding acceleration adds the ability to turn faster(actualy adding acceleration doesnt accelerate your tank that much either)

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Random Chaos
Member
posted January 15, 2000 11:34 AM            
Well, the fastest turn I know of is get up speed, then do a skid-turn. Very easy to do and a VERY fast turn.

If you are standing still, pressing back or forward momentarily followed by turning turns slightly faster than a full stop or a accerating and turning combo.

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Random Chaos
Member of Clan Temporal Chaos
http://treadmarks.3d-unlimited.com
Randomc@3d-unlimited.com

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Random Chaos
Member
posted January 15, 2000 08:51 PM            
Since the post this was relevent to is no longer present, this is post itself is not really relevent.

I too saw this review and, being a long time member of the TM comunity was appauled by the obvious calous and closed minded reveiw that this game got.

The first thing that hit me was your reference to the tank driving like a yak. Have you ever driven a Yak? I haven't...then you clarified it with a comment about being unable to control the tank with the controls provided, well, unless you have played for a week or so, the controls seem ungainly. After a week or so, they are very natural to use and would wonder why anyone would have problems about it. You also neglected to mention what Control method you used and whether you even realized whether the control keys could be changed. There are 3 control modes - keyboard, keyboard+mouse, and keyboard+joystick.

Your comments about the game's quality of craftmenship, "visually impaired," "ugly pixilated trees," and "screwed up physics engine" are in error. This game uses the same quality of redering as Q3 only with terrain deformation. It is of equal quality visually, if not better, than Halflife. The physics engine seems to have no problems - since when when you drive a tank at 100KPS does it not go flying when you hit a bump?

You completely missed mentioning the complete custimizability of the game! That is one of its strongest points. Any user can create major customizations.

Frankly, after reading that reveiw, I found that it was offencive, not just about the game, but from my own sence of civility. It was insulting and condecending. Frankly, I will not be reading another reveiw by you. To rate a game using objective veiwpoints and direct rating of the features is one thing. To rate a game on your personal opinion of the type of game is another, especially when the reveiw is stacked with insults.

Treadmarks is not a tank racing game primarily. Its most important part is the Death Match game. That is where everyone I know usually plays.

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Random Chaos
Member of Clan Temporal Chaos
Site Admin of http://treadmarks.3d-unlimited.com

[This message has been edited by Random Chaos (edited January 17, 2000).]

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kenny
Member
posted January 16, 2000 03:25 AM            
how can a reviewer fault this game for various "problems". i persoanly play the demo about 6 hours a day and modify it for about 2-3. its excelent, i modify it then 'playtest' it for 30 mins then repeat process untill i feel like gettingon icq or watching a movie.

(i lead a life of a vegatable)

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mumbojumbo
Member
posted January 16, 2000 08:30 AM         
Kenny, you need to get out of the house, man!

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rewalt
New Member
posted January 16, 2000 05:59 PM            
6 hours!!!! Kenny...I'm worried about you man....and i dont even know you! I hope it doesnt take me THAT long to get the hang of this game!

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Kaeto
Member
posted January 17, 2000 02:58 PM            
Heh, I've averaged 3 hours/day since TM test 1 was released and I still suck!!!!! TM is the deepest, best looking, most fun, and by FAR most unique game ANYWHERE!!! TM is KING of the games... TM is NOT ANOTHER FREAKING QUAKE GAME!!!!! GET THAT THROUGH YOUR STUPID HEADS!!!

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Hawk
Member
posted January 17, 2000 09:58 PM            
And I've only been playing for a couple months and I can already pick off targets from halfway across the map...but I stink at close-quarters battle. I'm a sniiiper, a sniiiiper, whee.

(TC)Blackhawk

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