|
Author Topic:   one major flaw
funnyman
unregistered
posted October 17, 1999 12:52 PM           
Great game but, The viewing only in 2d in a 3d world totally blows. Will you be able to mouselook up and down? you must currently have to sit on a flat surface to fire a at anyone it sucks and you cannot fire going over hills or anything but the boits still can so you fragged going up hills and stuff, oh yeah you also cannot see where you are going when going up hills either with no mouselook

IP:

sno
unregistered
posted October 17, 1999 02:24 PM           
just hit delete, swap view modes

and i think everyone here is in agreement against vertical aiming

i thought this game should have it too at first

but keep playing the game

and you will start to see why it shouldnt

IP:

Random Chaos
Member
posted October 17, 1999 04:01 PM            
Yeah, the vertical aim thing has been up to much debate. Basically, it has been shot down for the following reasons:

KISS (Keep it simple stupid) controls
Problems with telling where you are aiming
Its fun to use the terrain to aim - and takes more skill
General agreement that this change would only decrease who fun the game was to play

Also, for your comment on bots:

Only the most difficult level of bots is implemented.
Try multiplayer - its far more fun!

--Random Chaos

IP:

Random Chaos
Member
posted October 17, 1999 06:44 PM            
Also, one of the things about the game is to learn to use the landscape to aim. If you have a small crater, use it to aim up. If you have an MRL, use a crater to help aim it down. This is learned over time and a new player will be at a large disadvantage.

IP:

flybynight
Member
posted October 17, 1999 07:54 PM            
I have to agree with funnyman on this one. And, as you guys know, I play a lot.

There are too many times when I continue a chase over a cliff or up a cliff and I'm firing randomly to get the sure kill. In these cases, its not who has the best skill, reflexes, or aim that wins the firefight, its who got lucky and has the camera angle that can actually see the other player! That does nothing but SUCK.

There just has to be more camera angle options for the multitude of angles that firefights take place in. It is emberassing to be 6 feet away from your opponent, but neither of you can get an angle to see each other.

I would suggest to LDA to take a look at some racing games, with cockpit, bummper, wheelwell and other views, all with zoom out equivalents too. Hotkeys for these, just like driving games, would keep the action going.

My 2 cents. See you guys online!

flybynight

IP:

Random Chaos
Member
posted October 17, 1999 08:07 PM            
The only way any type of vertical aiming would work would be with a cockpit view. And only the turret should have vertical aiming. I agree that it is annoying to fire randomly, but without a cockpit view, its almos impossible to do anything else.

IP:

sno
unregistered
posted October 17, 1999 08:38 PM           
i'm with random on this, it takes alot more skill to use the terrain to your advantage for aiming

and that's good

IP:

funnyman
unregistered
posted October 17, 1999 09:28 PM           
I agree lot more skill but alos alot more time, this is supposed to a DM style FPS shooter nota simulation right? it it was asimulation i could see be painstakingly slow and aiming over hills and stuff but when you gotta aim or run to stay alive i am gonna just run look for a grenade and keep lobing till i kill someone or sit on aplateua and wait,
This game is too slow for the normal FPS quaker/dm style player and is busted IMO
but the graphics and stuff are great

IP:

LDA Seumas
unregistered
posted October 18, 1999 01:00 PM           
Have you tried hitting the Delete key, funnyman? That toggles between "boring" and "funky" camera modes; the boring mode is always horizontal, whereas the funky mode tilts up and down as much as 45 degrees to match where your tank is pointing, which helps a lot on hills. You usually want to toggle to boring mode just as you're cresting a hill though, to see what's at the top. Also try toggling the Turret View with M, which gives you a much less "mushy" camera even with the turret pointed forwards.

Also, the game's not a sim, but it's also not supposed to be as fast and furious as Quake. I think if it _was_ a simulation, it would need vertical aiming, but because it is a little more towards the arcade I think vertical aiming would just get in the way.

Part of what I like about Tread Marks is that it isn't just a twitch game like Quake (which I also like a lot); you have to use your head, and think tactically, to do well.

------------------
-- Seumas McNally, Lead Programmer, Longbow Digital Arts

IP:

Buster Charlie
New Member
posted October 19, 1999 05:11 PM            
I think verticle aiming would be awsome but the way it is fun as it is.. ideas:

1) Server option, turn it on and off...

I think the aiming should be useing the middle mouse wheel or whatever keys you bind it too would keep the game simple.

2) modes, for fast and fun on the fly attacks you could use the current aiming but then you could hit a key and switch to artilary mode for those long range shots

I dunno but I think being able to choose virticle aiming would be awsome. It can be kept simple and I think it would add a LOT to the game, and it could be a option that could be switched off if a server didn't want to run it verticle aiming mode. I also like the idea of the mouse wheel aiming (and maybe a small readout that tells you the angle of your gun and a 'quick release' that would pop the gun back into normal mode)

I dunno but I think verticle aiming would add a lot of fun to the game.

IP:

sno
unregistered
posted October 19, 1999 07:14 PM           
having gained experiance in this game,

i've become quite accustomed to using the terrain to my advantage,

and i like eet

so i'm set against, verticle aiming, it just takes some time to learn how to do it properly(at first, i was frustrated, now i like eet)

and i at first thought vertical aiming would be good, but trust me, play the game a little more, once you learn to use the terrain to your advantage, the game will be much easier, and much more fun

IP:

sno
unregistered
posted October 19, 1999 07:15 PM           
*sno slaps forehead*

man i can't spell

IP:

orion
Member
posted October 20, 1999 01:51 AM            
down with vertical aiming! well, vertical aiming would be nice, but, i'm not asking. i like using the terrain to send my stuff in orbit. =)

------------------
-orion


IP:

flybynight
Member
posted October 22, 1999 05:20 AM            
uhhh... this thread is about the camera angles, not vertical aiming. Wasn't it?

Whatever your opinions of vertical aiming, I would appreciate an opinion about my previous post to this thread.

I.E.:
Whether the 2 camera views included in the game are enough.

I would definitly like a birds eye view to see the kickass terrain changes after a nuke fight, and a missile view from the nukes/matter/cruise missile perspective. These would be *cool*. My original complaints of camera angles still stand, however.

IP:

Appel
unregistered
posted October 22, 1999 06:13 AM           
When you fire one of the bigger I think it would be cool with a smaller window opening up with a birdseye view of the missile flying towards it target.

IP:

Random Chaos
Member
posted October 22, 1999 08:21 AM            
as per request they are also considering a rear veiw camera.

IP:

LDA Jim
Administrator
posted October 22, 1999 02:35 PM            
We’re thinking about having the mouse move the camera view quickly, ala quake. The turret would then auto turn toward the camera view.

The left mouse button would shoot.

The right mouse button would toggle between camera views.

You could have a quick look at an approaching tank, but would have to anxiously wait for you gun to swing around. Could be cool. What do you think?

IP:

Random Chaos
Member
posted October 22, 1999 04:04 PM            
Only if you have a toggle to for the turret follow. There are times when I want to move the veiw, but not the turret. Otherwise - I like the idea.

IP:

sno
unregistered
posted October 22, 1999 07:12 PM           
i like the idea of the turret turning to where ever the cam points, but with the mouse moving fast to that point(quick view changes)

IP:

Kaeto
Member
posted October 23, 1999 12:22 PM            
I like the fast viewchange/slow turret move idea but make it an option (like everything else) so that we can have the stick with the turret mode we have now, also

IP:

flybynight
Member
posted October 26, 1999 09:20 PM            
That sounds fine. As long as within those camera angle options there is a view that would take care of the problems I outlined in my October 17th post to this thread. I think a top-down view relative to your own tank (zoomed out slightly) would solve all my complaints.

Thanx for answering.

cya online guys.

fly

IP:

Random Chaos
Member
posted October 26, 1999 11:47 PM            
I might point our an annoyance with the camera controls:

When going up or down a near verticle cliff you can't see whats in front of you!

------------------
Random Chaos
Clan Temporal Chaos
treadmarks.3d-unlimited.com

IP:

LDA Seumas
unregistered
posted October 28, 1999 01:10 AM           
Okay, I've just finished implementing Mouse Look. It's an option in the Options screen, and a configurable key control, so you can toggle it on the fly if you like. It has two modes: With Boring Camera, it lets you swivel the view left and right quickly, with the horizontal locked down, as it is now in Boring Cam mode. With Funky Camera, you get full Quake-style up, down, left, right mouse look, which is very cool for tracking nukes and cruise missiles through the sky. In both modes, the turret rotates towards the view direction at all times; I couldn't figure out a good way of making the turret following the view a toggle without over-complicating things. And IMHO most of the time you want to shoot in the direction you're looking.

------------------
-- Seumas McNally, Lead Programmer, Longbow Digital Arts

IP:

Random Chaos
Member
posted October 28, 1999 11:10 PM            
Actually, the main reason I was hoping for a turret follow toggle is:

You want to make a quick look behind you, but want to keep firing where the turret is facing, but the turret moves when you look elsewhere.

Same thing if you want to be ready to shoot in direction A but need to look in direction B for some reason, and know you can't get the turret back fast enough to fire if it moves.

------------------
Random Chaos
Clan Temporal Chaos
treadmarks.3d-unlimited.com
randomc@3d-unlimited.com

IP:

Kaeto
Member
posted October 29, 1999 10:30 AM            
I think Seumas did it right. If your turret didn't follow, it would require no skill to take a look behind you while in battle. I feel that everything should be doable at different skill levels so there's always room to get better at the game.

IP: