|
Author Topic:   add more control?
DarkFrog-School
unregistered
posted September 13, 1999 02:06 PM           
Any chance that large movements vertically from, the mouse could correspond to small changes in elevations for the turrets (to be able to rain high powered artillary shots that require careful aiming, instead or spraying ,missles with no abandon.

IP:

DarkFrog-School
unregistered
posted September 13, 1999 02:20 PM           
Wow, I never quite realized how butchered my english is

IP:

LDA Seumas
unregistered
posted September 13, 1999 06:37 PM           
That's something we've been debating about... Adding vertical aiming controls would be possible, but in some ways we think the game might be better without them. It's already pretty easy to hit the enemy, even with a main gun round, when you're skilled; part of it comes through using the surrounding terrain (including fresh craters) to aim your hull up and down the required amount for the hit, which takes both skill and tactical awareness of the land around you. Also, not having a vertical aim control (or even an automatic vertical adjust) does keep the controls simpler, and one of the things we like is how simple and straight forward the controls are.

Another "simplicity in controls" debate surrounds the ability to discard your current weapon, or even to be able to fire your main gun while a bolt-on is attached. For the moment, we're leaning towards keeping things the way they are; allowing weapon discards would raise a number of game play issues for race mode and battle mode, depending on how the rule was implemented. Right now weapons respawn very quickly. Would we give discarded weapons a time limit, so that people couldn't hord them? Or if discarding a weapon removes it instantly, what about the jerk in race mode who keeps discarding and collecting weapons to keep the guy behind him weapon-less? (Right now, driving past a Nuke or a Cruise Missile with a clip full of ammo you can't quite waste fast enough with another tank on your tail is a gratifyingly painful experience... <grin> )

But, we'll have to see. The Second Test should provide some good feedback.

------------------
-- Seumas McNally, Lead Programmer, Longbow Digital Arts

IP:

DarkFrog-school
unregistered
posted September 15, 1999 05:12 PM           
Hmm, I get your point, well, how about having the mouse involved, for those who like ekyboard-mouse controls would probably like it
(mouse for shooting/side swing on turret, keyboard for steering and throttle)
think you might put that in test#2 so you could feedback on it???

IP:

S1hane
New Member
posted September 18, 1999 01:20 PM         
Being lagged would be one thing very bad when you are trying to drive into craters and then fire at the exact nanosecond that you line up correctly. . .

IP:

Moriarty
unregistered
posted October 06, 1999 01:48 PM           
I agree with the "keep it as it is" - side of the debate. The way things are now, the game does have a lot of fun and tactical considerations in it while being simple enough to be outright fun from second one. The "easy to learn, difficult to master" principle.
I do see the problems with netlag though. But that screws up your aiming no matter how...

On my AMD K6-233 with a Matrox Mil2 and two Voodoo2 12M cards the game runs fine, but my CPU doesn't quite live up to the power my voodoos can provide... darn. It also locks up sometimes, but that seems to be a problem of my PC too.
I love the inscriptions on the nuke! can hardly see them in-game though.

IP:

Random Chaos
unregistered
posted October 06, 1999 02:58 PM           
I agree with the Add Verticle controls. I can't tell you how many times I have been at the top of a small incline and coming down only to fire into the ground -- where as the ground level person firing at me can hit just fine. And I don't have a lag problem...

IP:

Moriarty
Member
posted October 08, 1999 05:31 AM            
Seumas, you should really start thinking about an online-poll thingy on the Treadmarks page about weapon discarding/switching and vertical controls (at least I would love to see the results...)

------------------
- - - - - -
I'm on AOL - not everything that comes from a bad place is necessarily evil

IP:

LDA Seumas
unregistered
posted October 08, 1999 12:32 PM           
Would anyone know where to find a good free to use poll-taking and results-displaying perl CGI script?

------------------
-- Seumas McNally, Lead Programmer, Longbow Digital Arts

IP:

sno
unregistered
posted October 08, 1999 02:50 PM           
i think the game should alow a small field of aiming up and down for the turret based weapons(witch hopefull would also be used by mouse, give control of up and down movement on the turret)

and

--GIVE US A DROP WEAPON FEATURE!--

IP:

Anthrage
New Member
posted October 08, 1999 03:27 PM            
Personally, I think the game is better without the vertical turret movement and the ablity to drop weapons. Not necessarily easier, but better.

First of all, the way things are now, far more skill is required in lining up a shot - and I can tell you it sure is satisfying when you are able to co-ordinate everything correctly, using the physics and terrain of the game to get that perfect one-timer; blammo!

Secondly, there are some abuse problems with weapon dropping, especially in the racing mode. The first tank to each checkpoint could pick up all of the weapons, dropping them as he goes.

Hoarding weapons in DM, especially if there were a team moded, would be a major problem. Having to frantically fire all of your machine gun ammo as you rapidly approach a nuke is nerve-wracking and fun, especially when someone else comes out of nowhere and grabs the nuke at the last minute, leaving you defenseless.

An alternative would perhaps be the idea of weapon 'slots' - as far as I can tell with the current weapons in the test, there are 3 places on the tank where weapons can be attached. The left side: for missles, the avenger etc., the top: for the bolt on weapons like the machine gun and the laser, and the back: for things like the mine layer.

No suppose you could keep a weapon in each of these positions at all times, and need not discard the weapon from one 'slot' to pick one up for another. I would suggest limiting the firing of these weapons to one slot at a time, perhaps having a single toggling fire key, but it would be an alternative to dropping weapons.

Teamplay of some kind would be a great idea, rolling across the desert as a platoon of tanks would be great fun.

Either way, this is a great game, and an exceptional design team; I hope everyone spreads the word about Tread Marks so that when it is released, it is a great success, ensure other great titles from LDA.


Anthrage
--------
Seeing is believing.

IP:

flybynight
Member
posted October 08, 1999 08:53 PM            
Hmmm... good points by everyone. My $0.02:

Playing Online right now, after spawning, you zip over to get a bolton weapon, whatever it is, and go find the fight. So it might be: Avenger vs Machine Gun (needs 100 bullets btw) vs R-Grenades vs M.R.L. vs ... etc. The game forces you to be good and inventive with whatever weapon you got. Getting a couple kills against an Avenger feels pretty good! When you're out of *special* ammo, you finish them off with the peashooter. Ideally! But, many times, they slip through your fingers. Aaargh! And then come back at you with your low health and shoot you in the butt. Kaboom. It is extemely balanced gameplay as is. Just when you think you have the frag(s) it turns around on you. Thats great gameplay.

So, I think the controls and weapon switching are fine as is.

Perhaps, for some special bolt-ons, a howitzer for example or a *really really big gun* you include up/down movements just for that weapon. Or maybe just the peashooter, giving it more depth as a default weapon.

Something that would change hugely with up/down movements -> Chases! They won't last nearly as long, IMHO. Not sure if I like that.

IP:

sno
unregistered
posted October 08, 1999 09:51 PM           
the drop weapon, wouldnt be a drawback, it wouldnt encourage cheap game play,

but it would give some people a chance in a fight!!

for example

your low on health, you have a fully loaded mgun, the enemy has a plasma cannon,, there is a pack of swarmers sitting near you, that you could use to even things up,

but DAMNIT, you cant pick it up, cuz you can't get rid of your mgun ammo fast enough, then you get fragged

this is all happened to us, surely you can't think a drop weapon feature could do anything other than help the game(and keep alot of people from getting frustrated)

IP:

sno
unregistered
posted October 08, 1999 09:59 PM           
as to the vertical aiming

even if it was only on the main gun, that would be enough, i agree, if it was on all the weapons, the game would become a tad unbalenced

IP:

sno
unregistered
posted October 08, 1999 10:02 PM           
actually, i take that last post back, not being able to aim verticaly adds a whole new level of skill to the game

IP:

Kaeto
Member
posted October 09, 1999 03:30 PM            
I am on the leave it as it is side as far as vertical aiming, but I think you should be able to drop your gun and pick up another one. The gun you drop should stay there like when you get fragged so someone else can pick it up. That way, the leader in the race mode couldn't take all the guns (he can take most of them now anyway)

IP:

Random Chaos
Member
posted October 09, 1999 03:59 PM            
I think vertical aiming would be nice, but...

If you have verticle aiming, using this 3rd person view option would be a problem with telling the vertical angle of the turret.

IP:

Random Chaos
Member
posted October 12, 1999 03:21 PM            
Refering back the original post, I think that even if you don't allow the main weapon to be fired while having another weapon (which I think should be able to be done) - you should at least show the ammo in the main weapon.

For firing the main weapon seperately from the secondary weapon, what I think should be done is no weapon can be fired untill the wait on the last weapon used has run out. Also, the main weapon is important to be able to use - if you have a nuke and want to defend yourself without killing yourself its needed. Same with a plasma mine if you are under attack - what do you do - you are defenseless.

--Random Chaos

IP:

Thor
unregistered
posted October 12, 1999 07:05 PM           
The game rocks as it is. I already have half a dozen people hooked on it and eagerly awaiting the release. Don't change it!

IP:

sno
unregistered
posted October 12, 1999 07:10 PM           
i agree, it just needs more methods of play(game modes)

AND A WEAPON DROP FEATURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IP:

LDA Seumas
unregistered
posted October 13, 1999 08:51 PM           
Being blessed with a nuke and then having someone madly chasing you at point blank with no way to get rid of them save out running them or blowing yourself up with them is part of the fun.

And now with the Super-Ammo power-up, you'll never want to actually _fire_ a nuke once you get one, instead you'll want to hunt for Super-Ammo power-ups so you can get more ammo. Even more opportunity for someone to waste the nuke carrier with a well placed cruise missile or plasma bolt to the rear. Heh heh. Of course if you can actually get multiple nukes, everybody dies.

------------------
-- Seumas McNally, Lead Programmer, Longbow Digital Arts

IP:

iceWyrm
unregistered
posted October 17, 1999 06:22 PM           
Well, from what I've seen, some like the game without such options as vertical aiming and weapon drops, and some find it frustrating... I say, make it an option!

IP:

Dreamer
Member
posted December 04, 2000 06:21 PM         
Well, kinda strange to reply to this thread - but Seumas was looking for free voting scripts/res.
Maybe check out http://www.thefreecountry.com/ecentricity/polls.html
...
I just felt like it.

IP:

synack
Member
posted December 04, 2000 08:31 PM         
This actually startled me. I haven't been through this tread before, and to see Seumus' replies hit me unexpectedly and hard. Maybe it's just me. I lost a few friends in similar ways. It's hard to deal with it.

Not your fault Dreamer. No need to reply.

IP: