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you can't kill whats already dead !

LMMFAO!

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FISH!!! I have fun!!! RB/RBT/TM anyone? :D Firefox 1.0 Rocks!!!

And yes, as with many holidays Christmas has many of its traditions in purely contrived practices. The traditional nativity scene itself is a conglomeration of multiple events. Since the star above the place of Christ's birth did not occur until his birth; and since the wise men were from another land; they didn't arrive until Christ was well beyond new born status. But you probably knew that too. Fun?

To follow your own point that not everybody reads ancient greek or goes into the history of it, nobody would know - especially athiests who have no intention of reading the bible for any kind of insight.

Therefore the X (adopted by athiests over the years and pronounced CRISS) (no T remember, we dont believe in christ), has been wholly accepted as an alternative to CHRISTMAS. To start calling any event by X-(fill in the blank) after that explanation, and after the posted websites explanation of "X" if pure ignorance and dare i say it, sarcasm, designed to rile athiests.

What if athiests started having a go at christians, catholics etc.... that would be unacceptable here, so please have some respect for others beliefs instead of fighting it and trying to convert ppl through what you call "witt".

Not everybody WANTS to believe in your god or your Christ - why cant you accept that and move on ? Maybe i should start a thread bashing the bible - see how long it takes it to get deleted huh ? - For example, why in Gospels there are 4 completely different accounts of the Christ story ? - Why 2 jews rewote it in their own vision decades after the original, why they werent there, why they added things that werent said or done in the original ?

The bible is FULL of contradictions, and excuse me for drawing a modern day comparrison.......

You put $10 on team 1 to win.. they win, you go for your winnings and the bookie said "they lost"... you have an argument on your hands. its 2 versions of events, so how is the bible to be trusted any more than a common gambler ?

Yeah im sure anyone can walk on water....
Possitive a man with a stick can part an entire SEA and cross it.... blah blah blah

Bull**** lessons i can do without thx... Btw, they THINK they found Noah's Ark... its not big enough to swing a cat, let alone take on 2 of every animal... WHO wrote the bible ? - Why embelish it with so many lies over the centuries, why add at the end a passage that reads "gods wrath is upon you if you add or change the contents" ? .... its ALL Bull man !!! BULL !!

Did jesus exist - yeah probably, a magician of some kind, a david copperfield of his day... Jesus is a very common name. Is he gods kid, NAH... Was Mary sleeping around to get up the duffer and darent tell Joseph ? Probably....

Yes, I am being sarcastic about X-lentines. Imagine that. ME being sarcastic! :P Anywho, the point I was illustrating with that sarcasm is that to be consistent in not participating in religious elements of Christmas you'll have a lot more than just Christmas to deal with. As you know, western culture is strewn with Christian influence. No biggie though.

As far as converting goes, who said I was making any such attempt? You and I are debating, as we are wont to do - wit or the lack there of notwithstanding.

As far as not everyone wanting to believe goes, OK. Duh. I'm not proceeding under any such delusion.

As far as contradictions or the perception there of goes, I don't think you actually want to debate that. Not because you can't, I’m sure you’re quite capable - but because there'd be no point. But if you actually want me to address any perceived contradictions then I will.

As far as questioning your beliefs go, get real man. A little sarcasm here and there is my modus operandi, and you damned well know it. Relax! In fact, if anyone should decry the questioning of their beliefs it should be me. I brought up what I believe to be a possible inconsistency. On the other hand, you called the Bible (the foundational document of the Christian religion) all "BULL". Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. :P

But now i am intreagued, what is this "salvation" you speak of ? what form does it come in ? is it a thing that occurs at human death, or a comfort derrived from the belief for use in every day life ?

There's dozens of ways to approach the definition of salvation. Most simply IMO it's the salvation, or saving, of one's soul from eternal death.

In more detail: God is holy and can't associate himself with sin. Therefore humans have cut themselves off from him. Furthermore, God is a god of law. Everything has a consequence. The consequence of sin is death, both spiritual and physical - which of course means the death of our soul. But Christ being sinless was able to take that consequence upon himself in our place. In doing so his righteousness is imputed upon those who accept the gift of Christ's salvation. As a result we are spared eternal death and our relationship with God is restored. Upon acceptance of this gift our spirits are reborn - hence the term born again Christian.

Given that i see death as a mere transition to the next level (sometimes a painful one) and its happened to ppl who have never believed, who then exist as a soul/plasmodic entity you could call ectoplasm. To me the soul is your aura, the magnetic field that surrounds us all all the time. So what proof do i see for this belief... well, theres an abundance of spirit activity, not necessarily holy in origin. Take James Van Praagh or Colin Fry as example, they can see the spirit, prove who it is and that they are there, even where they are stood. Yet none of them speak of a diety, just this light, and the fact that there are others there within this "light", some speak of finding a loved one, others are guardians, i even know WHO my guardian is into the next life. Theres always been an element of psychic ability in our family, and im more prone to believe what i see and experience, than what i dont.

Colin Fry's page is much clearer on his beliefs. He even has a page that explicitly states them. The first principle listed is "The fatherhood of God".

None of that is to say that you do or should believe in God mate. Nor am I suggesting that they definitively represent your belief system. But it is in keeping with the fact that virtually all the "big time spiritualists" no matter what they're teaching will include God in the mix. The belief in God is so prevalent even amongst a-spiritual people that they have to include God in order to get a substantial following.

I dont believe the rest is anything to work on as the above paragraphs pretty much say as much as i think with the religion aspect.