As for Xmas.. yes, athiests give gifts, because athiests understand the need to respect others belifs, and if they give gifts, its only polite to return the gesture, the same applies to Xmas cards.

Its polite, its being sociable, it doesnt violate an athiests beliefs and it makes ppl smile, which to athiests at xmas is an important thing, probably the most important. But its less about religion and more about warm memories, sharing time together and family.

And no, we dont do the coal thing either...

Quite right, to me it is just another day, it happens to be a national holiday too, but theres plenty of places open... Pakistani shops, Chinese takeaways.. of course, they partake in the festivities too, and their belif system is as different again - New year for Chinese also is different, doesnt stop them celebrating it with us brits.. Brits celebrate Hogmannay, were not scottish, but we do... Jews do the Hannukah thing (however spelled), muslims, budhist and all over the globe, ppl do things in different ways, but all join in in some with whats going on around them.

New Year, yup - ill be drunk as a skunk

And my new years resolution ?

(thats not at u ras btw.... its a general statement) Most ppl arent asked to justify their beliefs when simply saying "merrry / happy -- whatever..."

This place is going down the drain fast... theres no respect here; so no need to bother wasting my time.

Ive got Sailor offering me sympathy for not beliving and then excluding me from a greeting, kong pulling appart the greeting itself and ras asking me to justify / explain what athiest is... Ill happily adress your questions ras on ICQ - this board is the pits.

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FISH!!! Me have fun!!! RB/RBT/TM anyone? Firefox 1.0 Rocks!!!

Oh yes and this board is not the pits only your opinion of it. Lots of good people here and all entitled to their opinion as you so state for yourself...

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May you always have a following Sea a cool breeze at your back and the comfort of those you hold nearest to your heart.
Sailor's Home Port

The soul, ya we all have one, it kinda floats around, and moves on when we expire - where to is a mystery, im of the ilk that doesnt believe that that particular mystery is solved as yet.

Every1 here should feel free to post an opinion, i dont feel like i can... kongs post arrogantly assumes i believe in christ, which upsets me as a personal affront, because i dont - i therefore see that as a forced perspective; i was further made to feel bad that id used the substitute X, i hope that clears that up and explains why i got upset. Religion shouldnt be forced on anyone, and, just to stress the point, i havent had this on ANY of the other boards i posted it on... only here.... thats kinda telling dont you think ?

Happy Holiday Sailor.

Oh man. So much drama. LOL. I asked you what you do on Christmas, nothing more. Your response made perfect sense (for an atheist ). As far as the other thread goes, Kong has a legitimate point. I hope I expounded on it enough that the point can be understood.

I hope your faith, whatever that may be, can allow you to see that.

And for the record, im athiest, and im dating a buddhist.. SHOCK HORROR !!.. so while i dont believe, i respect, i do think its a shame the same cant be said in return. But if ones beliefs lead you to rip into others, then question your own beliefs - cos sumthin is going terribly wrong in your head.

Thats "you" in the general term not you as in "ras", cos believe it or not (most likly not) i do respect you, your view and the right to have it and show it.

My final comment on this is:

You may be a christian... thats fine, just accept that not everyone in the world is, and that they dont necessarily celebrate what you do in the same way - thats mutual respect, and a thing that i think is definitely lacking around here. Whatever happened to understanding and accepting ? sheesh, where did this so-called good will to all men goto ? And - just top open another rather cool can-o-worms, isnt that statement kinda sexist ? dont women deserve goodwill too ? OH MY, AN INSULT (as seen if youre a woman).

Think about it.

I asked that one to a catholic friend online last night... they said "but that includes women in general" - ahh, so when was the last time women were born with a set of bollocks, a cock and a hairy chest then lol .... (dont even look at transexual, k, its not a clear definition).

A LOT of ppl could be insulted, by a lot of things, but chose not to be, and merely to see through it to any goodness that lies within - and thats what i expected here, maybe its time to kill off xmas greetings between religions and cultures if were all going to be insulted by each others beliefs.

Or maybe im just wrong, youre right, and all these "CHRISTMAS" cards downstairs are insulting me on a basic fundamental level - i should call them all, tell them not to bother, call them bastards and tell them to **** off ! lol....

The most correct translation of that verse is not "goodwill towards men". It's "goodwill towards those who love Him". Some Bibles get it right. The NIV puts it this way: "So Glory to God in the highest and on earth peace to men on whom his favor rests." Clearly the peace spoken of not meant for everyone. If the most correct translation imparts love towards those who love Him, some would take that as an implication of just the opposite for those who don't. Oh the horror of us awful Christians!!! To further support the idea, look at what Jesus said in Luke 12:51: "Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. "

So while some will argue the chauvinistic translation of Mr. King James, and while Mr. Hallmark will gladly take the lovey dovey goodwill message to sell cards, I say it's much worse than an issue of chauvinism or commercialism. The angels declared peace for Christ’s followers alone and Christ said he came to bring a fight! By the world’s standards that would make us awfully divisive, don’t ya think? But at the very least it takes some of the contradiction out of the mixed up message that weak Christians have propagated. If Christ is all about love then how is it that Christianity sometimes results in strife? It's because Christianity is not only about love. Christ PROMISED strife. Again the horror of us rotten stinkin' Christians!!!

That's not to detract from the message of hope that Christ brings. He does bring salvation for those that turn to him. And His promise of strife is NOT an invitation for Christians to purposely create it. We are to be at peace with our fellow man whenever possible. That's one of God's many commands. Yes, we fail at that and many other commands often. The way Kong handled it wasn't likely to be Christ's way. Though to be fair, I think you'd of blown up at even the most rational reply concerning the term Matey. You're a bit irascible, you know. Anyway, one of the many messages in the Bible is that Christians are just as human as the rest. Until we are transformed upon His return we're going to goof up. I'm sure you'll always be there to point it out when we do.

But i like what you wrote, and im better educated now, i dont delve into the bible (for obvious reason), and i have no intention to - but, as long as you believe in yourself and your convictions, you can acomplish much. Faith manages, dunno what, but it does, or thats what they say...

If youre looking, i hope you fond what youre looking for, if you have found it, cherish it, and if you were never looking for it (me), then youll never know. (you can quote me on that one, its a matrix original)

Have a great day m8

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>^_^<

Even returning ViperII's call yesterday to return his heart felt wishes of holiday cheer, you mean I could have blown them all off until today, 5PM PST?

So full of hate were our eyes
That none of us could see
Our war would yield countless dead
But never victory

So let us cast our arms aside
And like discard our wrath
thou, in faith, will keep us safe
Whilst we find the path

matrix our brain comprehension does not withstand the capasaty to know why we celebrate it. (yes humanity this is for you) I dont mean to insult anyone at this forum. But Humans may have intelect, but in plain english, we are stupid. because if we canot coexsist like other life on the planet, we made a usless holiday when everyone is supposed to be nice to eachother. We dont need faith in gods or godesses, but we will never understand why we made them to worship.
we will never understand why we did it, why people made sacrifices that were not needed. why people kill them selves because man told them to. Humans made these "higher beings" because they do not understand, we never will. there is no relavence to there exsistence. why the hell would they make us, if we just kill eachother. why would they waist their time. we are all smart and stupid. we will never understand why me lie to ourselves. we will never understand why it happened, or should it happen. I do not mean to question your faith.

[This message has been edited by Unescapable (edited December 28, 2004).]